Thompson - New agreement sent to CWU

[TopperGas]

If they could push everything through that they wanted to, why would they even be in negotiations with our union, with the threat of strike's even 1 day a week, companies will go elsewhere. Shareholders will not stay quiet when the shares start falling, because there's no agreement in sight

If kretinsky makes a bid for the company and hives off royal mail and keeps GLS , he'll have to pay the shareholders around £4 a share (60% primiem on current SP) under takeover rules. That will please the shareholders , even if they have a higher average price because GLS is a money making machine and we just cost them money to deliver letters. In reality , Royal mail was and is never going to work, trying to compete against other parcel delivery firms as we have to process transport and deliver letters too. It's never been a fair playing field.

Why would DK pay £4 a share now rather than wait a few months and pay nearer £3 a share, it's not like the share price will increase if he waits? Perhaps if he ever did hive off RM it might be a good move for it's employees, as the Government would probably then have to re-nationalise it if it wanted RM to keep making daily deliveries countrywide.

[rambo1]

If they could push everything through that they wanted to, why would they even be in negotiations with our union, with the threat of strike's even 1 day a week, companies will go elsewhere. Shareholders will not stay quiet when the shares start falling, because there's no agreement in sight

If kretinsky makes a bid for the company and hives off royal mail and keeps GLS , he'll have to pay the shareholders around £4 a share (60% primiem on current SP) under takeover rules. That will please the shareholders , even if they have a higher average price because GLS is a money making machine and we just cost them money to deliver letters. In reality , Royal mail was and is never going to work, trying to compete against other parcel delivery firms as we have to process transport and deliver letters too. It's never been a fair playing field.

Why would DK pay £4 a share now rather than wait a few months and pay nearer £3 a share, it's not like the share price will increase if he waits? Perhaps if he ever did hive off RM it might be a good move for it's employees, as the Government would probably then have to re-nationalise it if it wanted RM to keep making daily deliveries countrywide.

That figure is if he wants to make a takeover bid. He can and probably is, buying all he wants at the current price to get to his 30% target but to make a bid for the company once 30% is reached he has to pay a SP no less than the highest price that he or any of his co investors has paid per share in the preceding 12 months. Which I've read is about the £4 mark.

[rambo1]

If they could push everything through that they wanted to, why would they even be in negotiations with our union, with the threat of strike's even 1 day a week, companies will go elsewhere. Shareholders will not stay quiet when the shares start falling, because there's no agreement in sight

If kretinsky makes a bid for the company and hives off royal mail and keeps GLS , he'll have to pay the shareholders around £4 a share (60% primiem on current SP) under takeover rules. That will please the shareholders , even if they have a higher average price because GLS is a money making machine and we just cost them money to deliver letters. In reality , Royal mail was and is never going to work, trying to compete against other parcel delivery firms as we have to process transport and deliver letters too. It's never been a fair playing field.

Why would DK pay £4 a share now rather than wait a few months and pay nearer £3 a share, it's not like the share price will increase if he waits? Perhaps if he ever did hive off RM it might be a good move for it's employees, as the Government would probably then have to re-nationalise it if it wanted RM to keep making daily deliveries countrywide.

And how much do you think the UK govt would pay us? They won't even give the NHS a pay rise!

[ViperF]

Obviously to get a sensible deal that it can present to its members or are you happy to bend over and accept every change that Royal Mail proposes ?

What you have to realise is, the changes are happening with our without the union. Most of the changes are structural, which they are powerless to stop.

On a personal level, later start times don't affect me much, my office will be less than an hour later, Sunday working, my office isn't listed as a Sunday Hub (most aren't).

The Parcel Hub plan cannot be stopped, they spent hundreds of millions on that, and they're building out a separate parcel network regardless. I don't think it's a good idea, it'll f**k over postal services in the medium to long term, but they're doing it regardless.

Things like, new starts on worse contracts it's bullshit, but they're already doing that, as are they increasing the number of owner drivers.

People are biting their hands off for the new reduced redundancy terms, so they're doing that too.

Annualised hours, and flexi hours, commit to deliver, I'd have to see some mitigation on that, but the Union said sweet f**k all about that during their live thing the other day. So I have no idea where we stand on that.

In short, there is no sensible deal. The Union have backed themselves into a corner, where neither they or their members will accept a deal.

Royal Mail have totally outplayed us, and people need to accept that reality.

So basically you a “I’m alright Jack”

[A2B]

For many it's not all about the pay, a straight pay offer would probably have gone through by now, it's the attack on our terms and conditions which has brought us to this situation

[chickenwittle]

For many it's not all about the pay, a straight pay offer would probably have gone through by now, it's the attack on our terms and conditions which has brought us to this situation

Absolutely, a few % extra isn’t going to massively change my life.

[aiden01]

For many it's not all about the pay, a straight pay offer would probably have gone through by now, it's the attack on our terms and conditions which has brought us to this situation

Absolutely, a few % extra isn’t going to massively change my life.

Maybe not your's but a lot of peoples will.

[49erman]

So…………if you could have one or the other what would you choose? 1- a decent pay rise………or………..2- decent terms and conditions?
You can’t have both……..for me it’s no.2.

[A2B]

A few £'s this year will cost many more for you and me in the future if RM get what they want and i don't think we've heard half their plans yet

[Murdoch]

What you have to realise is, the changes are happening with our without the union. Most of the changes are structural, which they are powerless to stop.

On a personal level, later start times don't affect me much, my office will be less than an hour later, Sunday working, my office isn't listed as a Sunday Hub (most aren't).

The Parcel Hub plan cannot be stopped, they spent hundreds of millions on that, and they're building out a separate parcel network regardless. I don't think it's a good idea, it'll f**k over postal services in the medium to long term, but they're doing it regardless.

Things like, new starts on worse contracts it's bullshit, but they're already doing that, as are they increasing the number of owner drivers.

People are biting their hands off for the new reduced redundancy terms, so they're doing that too.

Annualised hours, and flexi hours, commit to deliver, I'd have to see some mitigation on that, but the Union said sweet f**k all about that during their live thing the other day. So I have no idea where we stand on that.

In short, there is no sensible deal. The Union have backed themselves into a corner, where neither they or their members will accept a deal.

Royal Mail have totally outplayed us, and people need to accept that reality.

So basically you a “I’m alright Jack”

To some degree, everybody puts their own self-interests first. But, that point was to illustrate for most delivery offices, the start times aren't changing by much, and most delivery offices won't be working Sundays. But regardless, I can work the occasional Sunday, wouldn't be a problem, and I can start later, again not a huge issue for me. I have supported the strike action thus far, however, the aim for strike action for me is to mitigate as much of the issues as possible, but ultimately get a deal across the line, otherwise, what's the point?

Has everybody on here genuinely, checked to see how the changes would affect them personally, probably not. There's a list of the proposed start times, and a list of the delivery offices that will be Sunday hubs, listed on the myroyalmail website.

[A2B]

Yes i have checked that's why i voted to strike.

[thedonkey]

I think we need to remember that striking at Christmas is a nightmare scenario for Thompson, he's managed to make people think he doesn't care whether it happens or not but behind the facade he'll be sh*tting it.

His tactics are predictable, that "if you strike then we stop the talks" should tell you everything, December strikes are a disaster for him. He met the shareholders yesterday and has a board meeting on Monday, is he really going to go into that telling the board not to worry about the strikes, at the companies busiest time of year and in the month that makes them the most money? He might act as if he doesn't care what happens but he'll be aware that the shareholders and the board won't just sit back and let him run the company into the ground because he's too stubborn to make a deal.

If he doesn't give us a good deal before the strike day then call his bluff, tell him there's no more room for discussion from the unions side as they've made their red lines clear, and all strikes are going ahead until a better deal is offered.

[Murdoch]

Yes i have checked that's why i voted to strike.

Yeah, and some of the times are extreme. I get it, it's not practical to expect 11:30 as a starting time. With the potential for annualised hours on top of that. People are not in a position to accept that, those are just not acceptable.

There are only a handful of extreme cases though, and those should be mitigated as much as possible.

The vast majority of new start times are between 8 and 9am. Is that something people can't adjust to? The feedback in my office and other's in the area, all with start times between 8-9 was "that's not so bad".

[SpacePhoenix]

Yes i have checked that's why i voted to strike.

Yeah, and some of the times are extreme. I get it, it's not practical to expect 11:30 as a starting time. With the potential for annualised hours on top of that. People are not in a position to accept that, those are just not acceptable.

There are only a handful of extreme cases though, and those should be mitigated as much as possible.

The vast majority of new start times are between 8 and 9am. Is that something people can't adjust to? The feedback in my office and other's in the area, all with start times between 8-9 was "that's not so bad".

You need to factor in the arrival times of the final runs from the MCs which are highly likely to get caught in traffic

[Murdoch]

Yes i have checked that's why i voted to strike.

Yeah, and some of the times are extreme. I get it, it's not practical to expect 11:30 as a starting time. With the potential for annualised hours on top of that. People are not in a position to accept that, those are just not acceptable.

There are only a handful of extreme cases though, and those should be mitigated as much as possible.

The vast majority of new start times are between 8 and 9am. Is that something people can't adjust to? The feedback in my office and other's in the area, all with start times between 8-9 was "that's not so bad".

You need to factor in the arrival times of the final runs from the MCs which are highly likely to get caught in traffic

Good point, so you think they haven't modelled for that, and they'd be even later in practise?