Thompson - New agreement sent to CWU

[chickenwittle]

So the union should have just stepped aside from the start and allowed Royal Mail to crack on regardless ?Unless they are in the room constantly fighting the worst of these proposals what’s the point ? We all accept the job will need to change in some capacity but the union must fight tooth and nail to assure that change works for its members in the way of pay and family life , or what’s the point in a union ?
[/quote]

The Union should have embraced the changes and work with and around the changes; not think that they are part of the management or board... In the publication about voting for strikes on terms and conditions - the CWU rejected every single proposal by Royal Mail - without even coming up with better proposals or amendments. Every single change was unacceptable and designed to be negative and so on.

In terms of a pay rise,no truly believed that we could have got a better deal without too much rancour but the CWU got cocky and rude and started abusing shareholders (of which postmen and women belong). They spent too much time talking about a no-string pay deal and mismanagement and no confidence in the board.

I don't think the CWU has changed or faced full reality yet; it might be too late for them if the next strike goes ahead... Simon keeps taking about attitudes - I get it!

The CWU just could not read the room. They are a bit-part player in a PLC; owned by shareholders - that little part they had was still very good for them and us until they got too big-headed thinking they are equals with management.

This has never been a negotiations of equals and the Minor player should have recognised the position much earlier on. Certainly by the start of October, the position of RM was clear and the effectiveness of strikes or influence of the CWU had been severely diminished. That was the time for intense negotiations and to cut a deal within the deal given.

Yes, Schiff, they will have to accept the structural changes proposed by royal mail - however, the changes in the final agreement is not exactly what we thought it would be at the start; so there has been movement!
They should get us more money and secure our jobs. Any member not happy can vote against such a deal - but they should also accept if majority vote for such a deal.
[/quote]

I stopped reading when you said the union should have embraced the changes , brilliant, try selling that to your members as a union .

[Murdoch]

They get a feel for it through the branch divisional reps who are told by the office reps what the feeling is from the members

Whether thats the right way of doing it is another question but they do ask the reps what our thoughts are

Yeah, I was making a broader point, that a collective position can only be made when you take on board the views of the individuals within that collective.

Obviously, the Union would say they do have an adequate grasp on the sentiment, and know what we would or wouldn't accept. But, I've never been asked by the union for my views, nor has anyone in my DO, or anybody that I know who works for Royal Mail.

So I don't think they can reject a deal "out of hand", and not say why, and just expect members to accept that on blind faith. As somebody else said, Simon Thomson is trying to turn people against the Union, and they are playing into his hands a bit.

[chickenwittle]

So the union should have just stepped aside from the start and allowed Royal Mail to crack on regardless ?Unless they are in the room constantly fighting the worst of these proposals what’s the point ? We all accept the job will need to change in some capacity but the union must fight tooth and nail to assure that change works for its members in the way of pay and family life , or what’s the point in a union ?
[/quote]

The Union should have embraced the changes and work with and around the changes; not think that they are part of the management or board... In the publication about voting for strikes on terms and conditions - the CWU rejected every single proposal by Royal Mail - without even coming up with better proposals or amendments. Every single change was unacceptable and designed to be negative and so on.

In terms of a pay rise,no truly believed that we could have got a better deal without too much rancour but the CWU got cocky and rude and started abusing shareholders (of which postmen and women belong). They spent too much time talking about a no-string pay deal and mismanagement and no confidence in the board.

I don't think the CWU has changed or faced full reality yet; it might be too late for them if the next strike goes ahead... Simon keeps taking about attitudes - I get it!

The CWU just could not read the room. They are a bit-part player in a PLC; owned by shareholders - that little part they had was still very good for them and us until they got too big-headed thinking they are equals with management.

This has never been a negotiations of equals and the Minor player should have recognised the position much earlier on. Certainly by the start of October, the position of RM was clear and the effectiveness of strikes or influence of the CWU had been severely diminished. That was the time for intense negotiations and to cut a deal within the deal given.

Yes, Schiff, they will have to accept the structural changes proposed by royal mail - however, the changes in the final agreement is not exactly what we thought it would be at the start; so there has been movement!
They should get us more money and secure our jobs. Any member not happy can vote against such a deal - but they should also accept if majority vote for such a deal.
[/quote]
I stopped reading when you said the union should have embraced royal mails changes at the start, brilliant, try selling that to your members as a union, unbelievable.

[chickenwittle]

They get a feel for it through the branch divisional reps who are told by the office reps what the feeling is from the members

Whether thats the right way of doing it is another question but they do ask the reps what our thoughts are

Yeah, I was making a broader point, that a collective position can only be made when you take on board the views of the individuals with that collective.

Obviously, the Union would say they do have an adequate grasp on the sentiment, and know what we would or wouldn't accept. But, I've never been asked by the union for my views, nor has anyone in my DO, or anybody that I know who works for Royal Mail.

So I don't think they can reject a deal "out of hand" immediately, and not say why, and just expect members to accept that on blind faith. As somebody else said, Simon Thomson is trying to turn people against the Union, and they are playing into his hands a bit.

It’s not rocket science is it , members don’t want Sunday working, later starts , worse sick pay , annualised hours etc.I can’t tell you one person in my office happy to accept this so the union have your backing to fight in all these issues.

[ninja22]

Didn't ST already put down his final offer for a deal a few weeks ago? Is this a final final offer or if we carry on with the strikes maybe they'll be a better final final Final offer.

[taurus88]

I don’t think the union has been out-played, rather they’ve exposed themselves as amateurs and repeatedly surrendered the initiative. There was something of an impasse between the CWU and RM prior to the cancellation of the rolling strikes, and the strikes that should have occurred on the 12th and 14th of November.

Within this void where we haven’t been on strike, RM has capitalised on the CWU’s juvenile blunder, and exploited that huge gap between strikes to pile the pressure on the individual workers while the CWU leadership has blathered and blundered along without direction.

The result of that is a union desperately struggling for a win - an adequate deal will no longer suffice, they need to demonstrate their usefulness now by bringing a good deal to the members. Many of whom are starting to wonder why they pay their subs.

The CWU has been soft and has played the game as amateurs - just like they did going into the pandemic, just like they did with their stupid antics when RM was able to get an injunction.

We should have been striking when the Queen died - calling it off as a ‘mark of respect’ was weak, and showed no respect for the members who found out they’d be on shift with less than 12 hours notice.

We should have been striking regularly in the last few weeks - the CWU and it’s legal representation f****d up and surrendered all the momentum we may have had by striking.

We should have had a long weekend on strike last weekend - something that would have at least been a bonus, an extra weekend, when you’re losing money - but lo and behold, the bumblers messed it up.

Now we’ve got no momentum, no sign of a deal, and a job that increasingly looks like a waste of time persisting with. The CWU has to get a good deal, otherwise there’ll be very few members left within Royal Mail within the year.

I’ll always be on the side of unions and I’ll never not strike when defending our terms & conditions. But there’s a ruthlessness and a competence that lends itself well to the war of attrition that is a strike. RM have waited for their enemy to make mistakes and have seized the initiative.

[Chitchat]

As regards to the statement

“The CEO has told us he has a Board meeting at 5pm on Monday and that this is effectively his deadline for negotiations to conclude.”

Perhaps Simon has to report to the board that a deal has been done, or he will be shown the door.

Let's be honest, Simon won't walk away from negotiations. Because we will just strike and destroy Christmas. And then if he continues to ignore his team, we will strike in January and so on.

If Simon truely wants to make royalmail successful, he has to understand that he has to work as a team and not a dictatorship.

[clashcityrocker]

I stopped reading when you said the union should have embraced royal mails changes at the start, brilliant, try selling that to your members as a union, unbelievable.

The CWU have always embraced change - single daily delivery, mail centre closures, collections on delivery.
The leadership of the CWU constantly bang on about how prepared they are for change.

In the words of Paul Young - Everything Must Change.

[k979aaa]

Bring it on we are ready and don't need the validation of 22 posts on here to do so get real man write you resignation and hand it it first thing Monday and we can talk!

[TheTrolleyMan]

Thompson is on the ropes and he knows it , let’s quit with the negative comments and stick together and see this thing through

[chickenwittle]

I don’t think the union has been out-played, rather they’ve exposed themselves as amateurs and repeatedly surrendered the initiative. There was something of an impasse between the CWU and RM prior to the cancellation of the rolling strikes, and the strikes that should have occurred on the 12th and 14th of November.

Within this void where we haven’t been on strike, RM has capitalised on the CWU’s juvenile blunder, and exploited that huge gap between strikes to pile the pressure on the individual workers while the CWU leadership has blathered and blundered along without direction.

The result of that is a union desperately struggling for a win - an adequate deal will no longer suffice, they need to demonstrate their usefulness now by bringing a good deal to the members. Many of whom are starting to wonder why they pay their subs.

The CWU has been soft and has played the game as amateurs - just like they did going into the pandemic, just like they did with their stupid antics when RM was able to get an injunction.

We should have been striking when the Queen died - calling it off as a ‘mark of respect’ was weak, and showed no respect for the members who found out they’d be on shift with less than 12 hours notice.

We should have been striking regularly in the last few weeks - the CWU and it’s legal representation f****d up and surrendered all the momentum we may have had by striking.

We should have had a long weekend on strike last weekend - something that would have at least been a bonus, an extra weekend, when you’re losing money - but lo and behold, the bumblers messed it up.

Now we’ve got no momentum, no sign of a deal, and a job that increasingly looks like a waste of time persisting with. The CWU has to get a good deal, otherwise there’ll be very few members left within Royal Mail within the year.

I’ll always be on the side of unions and I’ll never not strike when defending our terms & conditions. But there’s a ruthlessness and a competence that lends itself well to the war of attrition that is a strike. RM have waited for their enemy to make mistakes and have seized the initiative.

Like working the day the queen died makes any difference to this dispute is ludicrous .

[chickenwittle]

I stopped reading when you said the union should have embraced royal mails changes at the start, brilliant, try selling that to your members as a union, unbelievable.

The CWU have always embraced change - single daily delivery, mail centre closures, collections on delivery.
The leadership of the CWU constantly bang on about how prepared they are for change.

In the words of Paul Young - Everything Must Change.

There’s a big difference between managed change and destruction.

[hazzeem025]

I don’t think the union has been out-played, rather they’ve exposed themselves as amateurs and repeatedly surrendered the initiative. There was something of an impasse between the CWU and RM prior to the cancellation of the rolling strikes, and the strikes that should have occurred on the 12th and 14th of November.

Within this void where we haven’t been on strike, RM has capitalised on the CWU’s juvenile blunder, and exploited that huge gap between strikes to pile the pressure on the individual workers while the CWU leadership has blathered and blundered along without direction.

The result of that is a union desperately struggling for a win - an adequate deal will no longer suffice, they need to demonstrate their usefulness now by bringing a good deal to the members. Many of whom are starting to wonder why they pay their subs.

The CWU has been soft and has played the game as amateurs - just like they did going into the pandemic, just like they did with their stupid antics when RM was able to get an injunction.

We should have been striking when the Queen died - calling it off as a ‘mark of respect’ was weak, and showed no respect for the members who found out they’d be on shift with less than 12 hours notice.

We should have been striking regularly in the last few weeks - the CWU and it’s legal representation f****d up and surrendered all the momentum we may have had by striking.

We should have had a long weekend on strike last weekend - something that would have at least been a bonus, an extra weekend, when you’re losing money - but lo and behold, the bumblers messed it up.

Now we’ve got no momentum, no sign of a deal, and a job that increasingly looks like a waste of time persisting with. The CWU has to get a good deal, otherwise there’ll be very few members left within Royal Mail within the year.

I’ll always be on the side of unions and I’ll never not strike when defending our terms & conditions. But there’s a ruthlessness and a competence that lends itself well to the war of attrition that is a strike. RM have waited for their enemy to make mistakes and have seized the initiative.

[Murdoch]

It’s not rocket science is it , members don’t want Sunday working, later starts , worse sick pay , annualised hours etc.I can’t tell you one person in my office happy to accept this so the union have your backing to fight in all these issues.

If those are the red lines they are working with, then there's no prospect of any deal. We won't accept any changes to any of those things!

It's way more nuanced than that, there are degrees of change within all of those things you listed.

If there genuinely is no chance of members embracing any change. Then there's no solution to this.

[tansorboy]

So will it end in fire and rehire?