Thompson - New agreement sent to CWU

[hans solo]

I love all these new names with input
Pish talkers

[enskied]

Simon.
There is no place for bullying in IDS remember.... You will not tolerate it.

[chickenwittle]

Obviously to get a sensible deal that it can present to its members or are you happy to bend over and accept every change that Royal Mail proposes ?

What you have to realise is, the changes are happening with our without the union. Most of the changes are structural, which they are powerless to stop.

On a personal level, later start times don't affect me much, my office will be less than an hour later, Sunday working, my office isn't listed as a Sunday Hub (most aren't).

The Parcel Hub plan cannot be stopped, they spent hundreds of millions on that, and they're building out a separate parcel network regardless. I don't think it's a good idea, it'll f**k over postal services in the medium to long term, but they're doing it regardless.

Things like, new starts on worse contracts it's bullshit, but they're already doing that, as are they increasing the number of owner drivers.

People are biting their hands off for the new reduced redundancy terms, so they're doing that too.

Annualised hours, and flexi hours, commit to deliver, I'd have to see some mitigation on that, but the Union said sweet f**k all about that during their live thing the other day. So I have no idea where we stand on that.

In short, there is no sensible deal. The Union have backed themselves into a corner, where neither they or their members will accept a deal.

Royal Mail have totally outplayed us, and people need to accept that reality.

So the union should have just stepped aside from the start and allowed Royal Mail to crack on regardless ?Unless they are in the room constantly fighting the worst of these proposals what’s the point ? We all accept the job will need to change in some capacity but the union must fight tooth and nail to assure that change works for its members in the way of pay and family life , or what’s the point in a union ?

[chrisj]

The CWU is playing 'chickens' (on intended) with our money and jobs. I have no doubt in my mind that Simon and the best Ard will not talk to the CWU after another strike!

Then what! The CWU will soon have to start asking workers for subs rather than it coming out of the wages. Exec actions will accelerate and ultimately, it will be fire and rehire... It is not a game or threats!

Time to cut a deal and save all of us and themselves!

[chrisj]

So the CWU does not accept the agreement or parts of the agreement but what is their gripe or what are the sticking points...

Are we not to know? Is that what they really think of us?

[Murdoch]

So the union should have just stepped aside from the start and allowed Royal Mail to crack on regardless ?Unless they are in the room constantly fighting the worst of these proposals what’s the point ? We all accept the job will need to change in some capacity but the union must fight tooth and nail to assure that change works for its members in the way of pay and family life , or what’s the point in a union ?

Well, there's a few things they should have done differently.

They should have went for a no strings paydeal during the boom of the pandemic before the company paid out all the profits to shareholders. They didn't because they were having a love fest with Simon Thomson at that point. They should have realised ST was never their friend.

They should have realised that Rico's plan was still going to happen, and they were just being strung along till covid ended. They withdrew a ballot during that time, or failed to re-ballot (I don't recall exactly).

They shouldn't have riled up their members so much and promised that a "no strings pay deal" was on the cards. It never was.

They should have engaged with members on what change we were willing to accept. Everybody has their own red lines.

They should have balloted for "work to rule". They shouldn't have wasted time with pointless single day strikes, without that being backed by "work to rule" / "OT ban". The one day strikes did nothing but further Royal Mail's plan.

But I sympathise with the Union, they are in a no win position, and the system is rigged against us / them.

[broughts]

The CWU have let to much go on in the past to now start trying to close the door after the horse has bolted all the agreements have been ripped up and the union don’t always fight them anyway take part timers being made up to full time after a period of time that’s a joke people in my office have been part time for years without being made up after doing full time hours every week people are right get the best from a shocking deal let people decide if they want to go on inferior terms and move on we’ve lost this battle but hopefully not the war

[chickenwittle]

The CWU is playing 'chickens' (on intended) with our money and jobs. I have no doubt in my mind that Simon and the best Ard will not talk to the CWU after another strike!

Then what! The CWU will soon have to start asking workers for subs rather than it coming out of the wages. Exec actions will accelerate and ultimately, it will be fire and rehire... It is not a game or threats!

Time to cut a deal and save all of us and themselves!

Well you can’t complain in future if you are starting 3 hours later and working Sundays, enjoy your future job.

[Murdoch]

I love all these new names with input
Pish talkers

Give your own input then... jeesh, it's a forum for opinions.

[chickenwittle]

So the union should have just stepped aside from the start and allowed Royal Mail to crack on regardless ?Unless they are in the room constantly fighting the worst of these proposals what’s the point ? We all accept the job will need to change in some capacity but the union must fight tooth and nail to assure that change works for its members in the way of pay and family life , or what’s the point in a union ?

Well, there's a few things they should have done differently.

They should have went for a no strings paydeal during the boom of the pandemic before the company paid out all the profits to shareholders. They didn't because they were having a love fest with Simon Thomson at that point. They should have realised ST was never their friend.

They should have realised that Rico's plan was still going to happen, and they were just being strung along till covid ended. They withdrew a ballot during that time, or failed to re-ballot (I don't recall exactly).

They shouldn't have riled up their members so much and promised that a "no strings pay deal" was on the cards. It never was.

They should have engaged with members on what change we were willing to accept. Everybody has their own red lines.

They should have balloted for "work to rule". They shouldn't have wasted time with pointless single day strikes, without that being backed by "work to rule" / "OT ban". The one day strikes did nothing but further Royal Mail's plan.

But I sympathise with the Union, they are in a no win position, and the system is rigged against us / them.

You know full well work to rule would have been impossible to enforce and so did the union, this is a complete red herring and that would have unfairly placed the burden on part timers and those that do ot/ rest days etc. completely unfair.Also how could the union ask for a no strings pay deal in the middle of an agreement that had already been made and was being honoured by Royal Mail . Your views are all with hindsight and don’t really stand up to scrutiny.

[Murdoch]

You know full well work to rule would have been impossible to enforce and so did the union, this is a complete red herring and that would have unfairly placed the burden on part timers and those that do ot/ rest days etc. completely unfair.Also how could the union ask for a no strings pay deal in the middle of an agreement that had already been made and was being honoured by Royal Mail . Your views are all with hindsight and don’t really stand up to scrutiny.

That's true, I've said as much previously. The OT ban couldn't come in, because we failed to do anything about the part-time issue for years. That was my biggest annoyance with the Union when I first joined, they cared not one jot about the fact I was working Full-time or beyond every week, on a 12 hour contract.

I agree it's hindsight, but it doesn't change the fact that those things have put us in a bad position. I don't blame the union for the position we are now in, I point that firmly at Royal Mail.

But we have to accept the position we are now in. I don't see an alternative, personally.

[portadown]

Everyone is fighting for there jobs here even simon it's not going to end well

[49erman]

So what exactly is the new offer the CWU have rejected? Be nice to see it…..

[chickenwittle]

So what exactly is the new offer the CWU have rejected? Be nice to see it…..

You won’t see it until they get to the point they feel they can’t get any better in their opinion , then it will be presented to us .Royal Mail could present it to us if they wanted to.

[Schiff]

Time to cut a deal and save all of us and themselves!

What do you mean by "cut a deal"? Simply accept whatever RM are currently proposing in changes to our terms and conditions with a massive real terms pay cut thrown in for good measure?

I hope that there isn't a snowball's chance in hell that any union would "cut a deal" like that.