PAIN IN THE HOLIDAY ENTITLEMENT

[kingsmoor]

a simple thread turned to shite by the communist wing of the cwu

now

[evilc]

quick recap for you postie,i asked if everone else uses the stupid system called seniority..answers some think it was banned some still use it and some do things i cant even rememeber ,but the conclusion is if you wanna change it you have to table a motion at the agm...well im not and neither are several of my colleuge who think this stinks .in our opinion the union can argue over how much leave its MEMBERS should have but to dictate the system as to who gets to pick first has sweet fa to do with them or me

just a recap but you get the idea

I'm not entirely sure if I follow your reasoning, but, are you saying that non-members should not have their terms and conditions dictated to them by the majority who happen to be CWU members? Because if that's true will the non-members also be handing back pay rises that have been fought for and agreed by CWU members?

I cant understand why you would believe that by not being a member it gives you one set of rights, and another set when it comes to reaping benefits fought for by CWU members which include sick pay, maternity leave, national pay bargaining, and legislation that protects you in the workplace, just to name a few.

Are you saying that as an individual you want the right to pick and choose elements of the terms and conditions that have been fought for? If I have mistaken your meaning then I apologise in advance.

I am afraid its always been the same with strike breakers its ME ME ME and what (i) can get over and above anyone else this is why the UK is turning to crap, the CWU call it a race to the bottom.

you country as you put it is going to shite because you joined a union for the more more more attitude,f**k the customer ,the tax payer i want more money less work..sounds like closet conservatives to me dont get me started.
yet again morons with very few brain cells cant even follow the thread.,i could pick apart evry sentance of the previous two muppets but i cant be arsed lets just take afew .when we all join they say you have x amount of holiday,they dont say but youll only get it when everyone else doesnt want it...thats wrong right there.the union is dictating to royal mail when and who goes first(in my do atleast)its none of there buisness especailly for non union guys who are about a quater of the office..i dont pick a choose which terms and cons to follow my contract i signed didnt mention this at all ,so arnt you a muppet for talking outta your arse again

and the next muppet calling me a scab..are you retarded do you know what your talking about,do you even know what a scab is apart from the things on your husbands testicles(yes i know your a man)

well that proves whole heartdly that non union dudes are not only discriminated against but bullied and harressed .and if you were any sort of man you wouldnt do it annonomusly ..pathetic ..i await having this deleted again


postman i hope you ban that idiot for harrasment too

Tell me this,what is wrong with the first pick at holiday if you have over 20 yrs service in the company?

[kingsmoor]

20 years ,or five days makes no differance.they get more holiday is that not enough.that whole mentality is wrong.like the little old ladies playing bingo ever week then one week a new lady turns up wins the flyer money and they make a rule banning anyone whos not a regular from winning...doesnt matter you all pay the same....
were all supposed to be equal..
coarse its seniors bet they would never say newst ones get first pick it doesnt follow the me me me code
seniors have been there longer so leant to moan the most doesnt give them divin right to have the cherry on ever cake ever year..its just plain stupid

[curly1975]

quick recap for you postie,i asked if everone else uses the stupid system called seniority..answers some think it was banned some still use it and some do things i cant even rememeber ,but the conclusion is if you wanna change it you have to table a motion at the agm...well im not and neither are several of my colleuge who think this stinks .in our opinion the union can argue over how much leave its MEMBERS should have but to dictate the system as to who gets to pick first has sweet fa to do with them or me

just a recap but you get the idea

I'm not entirely sure if I follow your reasoning, but, are you saying that non-members should not have their terms and conditions dictated to them by the majority who happen to be CWU members? Because if that's true will the non-members also be handing back pay rises that have been fought for and agreed by CWU members?

I cant understand why you would believe that by not being a member it gives you one set of rights, and another set when it comes to reaping benefits fought for by CWU members which include sick pay, maternity leave, national pay bargaining, and legislation that protects you in the workplace, just to name a few.

Are you saying that as an individual you want the right to pick and choose elements of the terms and conditions that have been fought for? If I have mistaken your meaning then I apologise in advance.

I am afraid its always been the same with strike breakers its ME ME ME and what (i) can get over and above anyone else this is why the UK is turning to crap, the CWU call it a race to the bottom.

you country as you put it is going to shite because you joined a union for the more more more attitude,f**k the customer ,the tax payer i want more money less work..sounds like closet conservatives to me dont get me started.
yet again morons with very few brain cells cant even follow the thread.,i could pick apart evry sentance of the previous two muppets but i cant be arsed lets just take afew .when we all join they say you have x amount of holiday,they dont say but youll only get it when everyone else doesnt want it...thats wrong right there.the union is dictating to royal mail when and who goes first(in my do atleast)its none of there buisness especailly for non union guys who are about a quater of the office..i dont pick a choose which terms and cons to follow my contract i signed didnt mention this at all ,so arnt you a muppet for talking outta your arse again

and the next muppet calling me a scab..are you retarded do you know what your talking about,do you even know what a scab is apart from the things on your husbands testicles(yes i know your a man)

well that proves whole heartdly that non union dudes are not only discriminated against but bullied and harressed .and if you were any sort of man you wouldnt do it annonomusly ..pathetic ..i await having this deleted again


postman i hope you ban that idiot for harrasment too

Tell me this,what is wrong with the first pick at holiday if you have over 20 yrs service in the company?

What is wrong with everyone in the workplace been given a turn to pick every few years??

Sounds more fair than a few people getting the chance all the time while others don't.

[DGP1]

What is wrong with everyone in the workplace been given a turn to pick every few years??

Sounds more fair than a few people getting the chance all the time while others don't.

And who gets to choose the groupings, the manager. Everybody should just accept that unless you've been in a while then you probably aren't going to get what you want and as for kingsmoor wanting his holidays at the drop of a hat whenever he sees a cheap deal, he really is living in a world of make believe because I know of no business that would allow that.

[apple]

the manager has nothing to do with it,
it used to be or is, a list based on seniority yes? longest in gets first pick of hols, just moved to the business, last, well it's the same list that is used, all you do is take the top ten and put them at the bottom, everyone moves up, same next year


it's not a matter of who is in each group just the seniority list is chopped up into tens and rotated, faster and fairer system

worked at a few places and seniority at all never mind for hols, put it this way my friends are amazed

yes have a bit of seniority as well, if it was that would be about halfway there

think the, people who are against it are the people with seniority [forgive me if i am wrong] can understand it as well, change the goalposts etc

Like other posters have said, this should not be happening as it was done away with long ago, however if you have voted etc to keep in your office and you like it that way then fine, think the group of 10 is fairer as you have a greater choice of hols and have a faster rotation than a seniority based list would have

this has nothing to do with management! in our office our PHG does it, if you let the DIM he would only knack it
[just a thought can you read the whole thread, might give you a better idea]


the union thing, well sorry to say it but you really should be in the union, don't agree with all they have done and when i joined i had to think twice, the thing that swung it for me was that i felt like a sponger really, i was getting all the benefits as they fight to get these terms and conditions for you and not paying, as well as i really had no voice, if you want to change the union then do that by giving thought out and balanced ideas

i know they are not perfect but def think it would be even worse than it is now without them

[smokerjim]

the union thing, well sorry to say it but you really should be in the union, don't agree with all they have done and when i joined i had to think twice, the thing that swung it for me was that i felt like a sponger really, i was getting all the benefits as they fight to get these terms and conditions for you and not paying, as well as i really had no voice, if you want to change the union then do that by giving thought out and balanced ideas

i know they are not perfect but def think it would be even worse than it is now without them

BTW, would the initial set-up of the list be like the groupings for a football tournament - ie, the top ten seniors are the first seeds, the next ten are second seeds, etc, etc.....that way each group has a fair sprinkling of all levels, and new starters can be easily included when they join, etc, etc - mind you, I still prefer seniority, and ( for those offices that have have not made agreements to end seniority ) it is not illegal, no matter what flankers any DIMs want to pull

[TrueBlueTerrier]

What is wrong with everyone in the workplace been given a turn to pick every few years??

Sounds more fair than a few people getting the chance all the time while others don't.

And who gets to choose the groupings, the manager. Everybody should just accept that unless you've been in a while then you probably aren't going to get what you want and as for kingsmoor wanting his holidays at the drop of a hat whenever he sees a cheap deal, he really is living in a world of make believe because I know of no business that would allow that.

this is how it works everywhere,you know in a real job how much notice of holiday you need to give.ie one week or two or even a month..you go on line ,you see a late deal to florida fly/drive 80pounds each to fill the plane..wow its in three weeks next day you fill out a request form after looking at holiday calender..you get a yes no problem or you get a you cant have it off cos theres no cover 2 older guys have ingrowing hair ...
so then you book or not...its very simple.even for a disgruntled pleb
its febuary im now having to book my fisrt two weeks holiday,all bank holiday weeks easter summmer hols ect are already taken cos im dead last so im pick holiday upto april 2009
make sense????????

But how do you get round the problem of too many people wanting the same week off, also how would you stop people saving weeks up so that they still have 4 weeks left with 2 months to go. No system is perfect but in this case leave has to be pre booked ahead of time just so that Royal Mail can plan duties in advance and not have problems which would be caused by a log jam of holidays. On our section we have 10 full timers all have 6 weeks holiday (earned or paid for) with holiday at Christmas being banned that means only 48 weeks can be selected. with 60 weeks holiday to be chosen over 48 weeks there has to be some sort of plan otherwise you could end up with 1/2 the staff away.

[curly1975]

What is wrong with everyone in the workplace been given a turn to pick every few years??

Sounds more fair than a few people getting the chance all the time while others don't.

And who gets to choose the groupings, the manager. Everybody should just accept that unless you've been in a while then you probably aren't going to get what you want and as for kingsmoor wanting his holidays at the drop of a hat whenever he sees a cheap deal, he really is living in a world of make believe because I know of no business that would allow that.

you should really get out into the real world,everywhere ive ever worked has been first come first served.very few book holidays months or years in advance.only if theyve money to burn or are the next lot to file for bankruptcy

and if your that disgruntled fook off and let us all go one more place up seniority
stop dragging the rest of us down with you

Why don't you try and add something constructive to the discussion?

Coming on here telling people to "fook off" just because you don't agree with them is pathetic.

And as for telling people to get out into the real world i think it is you who needs to do that then maybe you might learn to have a sensible adult debate with out resorting to name calling and dismissing other peoples opinions in such a derogatory manner!!

[Fluke]

quick recap for you postie,i asked if everone else uses the stupid system called seniority..answers some think it was banned some still use it and some do things i cant even rememeber ,but the conclusion is if you wanna change it you have to table a motion at the agm...well im not and neither are several of my colleuge who think this stinks .in our opinion the union can argue over how much leave its MEMBERS should have but to dictate the system as to who gets to pick first has sweet fa to do with them or me

just a recap but you get the idea

I'm not entirely sure if I follow your reasoning, but, are you saying that non-members should not have their terms and conditions dictated to them by the majority who happen to be CWU members? Because if that's true will the non-members also be handing back pay rises that have been fought for and agreed by CWU members?

I cant understand why you would believe that by not being a member it gives you one set of rights, and another set when it comes to reaping benefits fought for by CWU members which include sick pay, maternity leave, national pay bargaining, and legislation that protects you in the workplace, just to name a few.

Are you saying that as an individual you want the right to pick and choose elements of the terms and conditions that have been fought for? If I have mistaken your meaning then I apologise in advance.

I am afraid its always been the same with strike breakers its ME ME ME and what (i) can get over and above anyone else this is why the UK is turning to crap, the CWU call it a race to the bottom.

you country as you put it is going to shite because you joined a union for the more more more attitude,f**k the customer ,the tax payer i want more money less work..sounds like closet conservatives to me dont get me started.
yet again morons with very few brain cells cant even follow the thread.,i could pick apart evry sentance of the previous two muppets but i cant be arsed lets just take afew .when we all join they say you have x amount of holiday,they dont say but youll only get it when everyone else doesnt want it...thats wrong right there.the union is dictating to royal mail when and who goes first(in my do atleast)its none of there buisness especailly for non union guys who are about a quater of the office..i dont pick a choose which terms and cons to follow my contract i signed didnt mention this at all ,so arnt you a muppet for talking outta your arse again

and the next muppet calling me a scab..are you retarded do you know what your talking about,do you even know what a scab is apart from the things on your husbands testicles(yes i know your a man)

well that proves whole heartdly that non union dudes are not only discriminated against but bullied and harressed .and if you were any sort of man you wouldnt do it annonomusly ..pathetic ..i await having this deleted again


postman i hope you ban that idiot for harrasment too

Kingsmoor, If I've missed the point what is it your trying to say? Reading your other posts, you do realise that the customer, taxpayer and the worker are often one and the same? If we earn more, we pay more tax, we spend more and in turn the country prospers. I don't consider it greedy its inflation and economics.

I know your not a union member, and that up to you, but why constantly attack members? Most of the people on here are members or Reps and have their own viewpoints that are just as valid as yours. Having read a lot of your posts, you seem to be constantly angry or upset about something.

[BELIAL]

Bye Bye

[BELIAL]

Ooh I think you called me a t**t And all Iwas doing was expressing my sadness due to your leaving us.Well guess you might be excluded now anyway

[smokerjim]

one twat sucked in....lmfao....muppets

now how do i get this site to stop sending me emails

Right, and that is a reasoned adult attitude to this debate ( and other members ) that doesn't breach the AUP? Well, it's not for me to decide, but to get this thread back on topic, I will ask again, if anyone else can come up with fair alternatives to seriority, that are equally easy for everyone to check, administer and understand, please post them below.

So far ( as I understand it ), there is the "seeding" system which I compared to that of football tournaments ( with something like 10 "groups" of workers due leave, as an example - but there could be more or less groups as needed, I guess ), but nothing else has stood out & even the seeding system doesn't seem like an equal of seniority, imho.

If you want to change the system from seniority across the Service, join the union ( if you have not done so ), speak to your rep, ask them to put motions in at branch meetings, speak to colleagues at other offices ( should be easy with flexibility, being able to work there when they need you ) and keep on trying - the union is a democratic organisation, if people want it, the union will work with RM to make it happen.

If you wish to moan about seniority, take it elsewhere - criticism is no good, unless you can construct something better from it.

[Fluke]

I kinda hoped you would both stay and debate your view. Although I find it strange that you joined a forum, where the majority seem to be CWU members, and then resort to name calling and whining when not enough people support your viewpoint.

[Fluke]

one twat sucked in....lmfao....muppets

now how do i get this site to stop sending me emails

Right, and that is a reasoned adult attitude to this debate ( and other members ) that doesn't breach the AUP? Well, it's not for me to decide, but to get this thread back on topic, I will ask again, if anyone else can come up with fair alternatives to seriority, that are equally easy for everyone to check, administer and understand, please post them below.

So far ( as I understand it ), there is the "seeding" system which I compared to that of football tournaments ( with something like 10 "groups" of workers due leave, as an example - but there could be more or less groups as needed, I guess ), but nothing else has stood out & even the seeding system doesn't seem like an equal of seniority, imho.

If you want to change the system from seniority across the Service, join the union ( if you have not done so ), speak to your rep, ask them to put motions in at branch meetings, speak to colleagues at other offices ( should be easy with flexibility, being able to work there when they need you ) and keep on trying - the union is a democratic organisation, if people want it, the union will work with RM to make it happen.

If you wish to moan about seniority, take it elsewhere - criticism is no good, unless you can construct something better from it.

Very well put.

I don't understand people that bitch about a problem, and can offer no alternative or want to do something about it. I spent most of my life in the Army and to be honest thought of the Unions as some sort of communist agitators. Its only after joining RM and seeing some of the halfwits and idiots that bully and harass working people. I joined the CWU and I didn't always agree with some of the things the Union did or the way they did things. The Rep at the time said to me, " If you want change, change it from within". I bet he regrets that, because we kicked him out and I became the Rep.