PAIN IN THE HOLIDAY ENTITLEMENT

[DGP1]

[johnnyp]

HOLIDAY ENTITLEMENT

WHEN I SIGNED A CONTRACT WITH ROYAL MAIL IT SAID I GET X AMOUNT OF HOLIDAY.
I DONT USUALLY BOTHER TO BOOK HOLIDAY TILL I FIND A CHEAP DEAL THEN BOOK MAYBE A WEEK OR TWO IN ADVANCE.IMAGINE MY SUPRISE WHEN MY MANAGER SAID IVE EARNT 9 DAYS AND THIS IS THE WEKK YOUR HAVING OFF....TOLD ME WHEN IM HAVING HOLIDAY THE OTHER 4 SHE SAYS I CAN CARRY OVER...

AS IF NOT ENOUGH OF A KICK IN THE BALLS THERES A LIST RUNNING IN SENIORITY AND DOOOOHHHH IM AT THE BOTTOM
YOU HAVE TO BOOK TWO WEEKS THEN ONE WEEK THEN ANOTHER..HOW THE FOOK DO I BOOK A DAY HERE A DAY THERE ..ITS JUST WRONG

DOES THIS HAPPEN EVERYWHERE OR IS IT JUST THE SCUM AGAIN IN MY OFFICE?


JUST LIKE CHRISTMAS TIPS I HAD TO HAND IN THEN GET ONE SIXTH OF TOTAL COS IVE ONLY BEEN THERE 2 MONTHS

YOUR THOUGHTS MUCH APPRICATED

This is how it works mate,Seniority its a perk of the job and we all started at the bottom.There is a system in place which came from the way forward agreement to soften the blow to junior bods,its called Tie Break,which means if you dont get your first choice leave this year then next year you revert to the top of the list,a sort of rotation policy so that everyone gets a fair crack at the peak holiday period every other year.

[saru]

>>>>>JUST LIKE CHRISTMAS TIPS I HAD TO HAND IN THEN GET ONE SIXTH OF TOTAL COS IVE ONLY BEEN THERE 2 MONTHS <<<<<

If you'd only been there 2 months you were lucky to get any tips at all! Most people are on an established route for a while before you get any tips.

[woofwoof]

u will find its against the law for Seniority to be used for allocating leave they changed it a couple of years ago

Age Discrimination Legislation

Seniority for Annual Leave signings - POL



Branches will be aware that the Age Discrimination Regulation came into force on 1 October 2006. As a consequence of this legislation POL has written to the Union stating that the continued use of seniority for annual leave signings could expose them to claims of unlawful discrimination.


http://www.cwu.org/members/action.asp?s ... 2&catid=21 if u want to read

[Carnoustie]

POL has written to the Union stating that the continued use of seniority for annual leave signings could expose them to claims of unlawful discrimination.

That argument was rejected by my local branch, on the grounds that seniority is based on length of service, not age. Our annual leave is still picked using seniority. It is not the case that a younger person is automatically discriminated against just because they are young. A person can be senior to someone who is actually older than him/her (by having joined Royal Mail before the older person did), so don't let POL kid you that seniority = age discrimination.

Their letter to the CWU was another example of RM trying to put the frighteners onto the union in a desperate attempt to get them to abandon seniority, a long-held ambition of Royal Mail's, just like monthly pay for all staff.

[curly1975]

In my opinion Seniority discriminates against every single person in an office except one person:

"The person at the top of the seniority list"

No matter how you justify it by saying seniority is a perk of the job or they deserve it due to their service it does not make it right.

It is a legal requirement for an employer to treat everybody fairly and equally and give everybody the same opportunities to better their working life/conditions.

In every single office up and down the land the person at the top of every seniority list has advantage to do this over everybody else in that office.

The group system for picking annual leave can work, as i know an office that does it.

It may just be me being radical or having a social conscience but i believe that everybody should get a "fair crack of the whip"

And the usual reply of "well those at the bottom will get there chance eventually" or "i worked up from the bottom so why should the new starters not have too" just does not make things right.

Sometimes it feels like new staff in RM are treat like second class citizens, no wonder the staff turnover is at unbelievable levels.

[kingsmoor]

>>>>>JUST LIKE CHRISTMAS TIPS I HAD TO HAND IN THEN GET ONE SIXTH OF TOTAL COS IVE ONLY BEEN THERE 2 MONTHS <<<<<

If you'd only been there 2 months you were lucky to get any tips at all! Most people are on an established route for a while before you get any tips.

i dont wont to go off my point of holidays,but if the money is handed to me and they say have a drink on me postie..then legally and mororlly its my money.i even wrote cards thanking all those who gave me a tip because the guy i give them too was writing down the addresses(why?either to see if im holding back any from last year or to give them prefeancial treatment...who knows).i asked him if he writes a card to thank them from all of us .he said we say thanks when the hand it over..well some of mine just left envolopes so i sent thankyou cards....

feel im rambling again

[kingsmoor]

HOLIDAY ENTITLEMENT

WHEN I SIGNED A CONTRACT WITH ROYAL MAIL IT SAID I GET X AMOUNT OF HOLIDAY.
I DONT USUALLY BOTHER TO BOOK HOLIDAY TILL I FIND A CHEAP DEAL THEN BOOK MAYBE A WEEK OR TWO IN ADVANCE.IMAGINE MY SUPRISE WHEN MY MANAGER SAID IVE EARNT 9 DAYS AND THIS IS THE WEKK YOUR HAVING OFF....TOLD ME WHEN IM HAVING HOLIDAY THE OTHER 4 SHE SAYS I CAN CARRY OVER...

AS IF NOT ENOUGH OF A KICK IN THE BALLS THERES A LIST RUNNING IN SENIORITY AND DOOOOHHHH IM AT THE BOTTOM
YOU HAVE TO BOOK TWO WEEKS THEN ONE WEEK THEN ANOTHER..HOW THE FOOK DO I BOOK A DAY HERE A DAY THERE ..ITS JUST WRONG

DOES THIS HAPPEN EVERYWHERE OR IS IT JUST THE SCUM AGAIN IN MY OFFICE?


JUST LIKE CHRISTMAS TIPS I HAD TO HAND IN THEN GET ONE SIXTH OF TOTAL COS IVE ONLY BEEN THERE 2 MONTHS

YOUR THOUGHTS MUCH APPRICATED

This is how it works mate,Seniority its a perk of the job and we all started at the bottom.There is a system in place which came from the way forward agreement to soften the blow to junior bods,its called Tie Break,which means if you dont get your first choice leave this year then next year you revert to the top of the list,a sort of rotation policy so that everyone gets a fair crack at the peak holiday period every other year.

does this mean next year i shall be first?.......
cos im not getting that impression at work
this sysytem suits no one except the long service guys
just because someone been doing the job 30years or 6 months more,why should they get first pick there already thanked with more holiday
just 4 miles down the road at langport there on first cum first served

[LUV THE SMELL OF LETTERS]

Thats nothing like our office. People who have booked their hols apply for that week off at begining of year or they can swap their weeks off with another willing coleague. It dosnt always run smoothly but the manager is quite flexible on this one. As for the christams tips thats not right having to share them out. Some lads in our office dont get any because they are not sociable with their customers. A tip is a gift form 1 person to another. I float 50 odd walks and im happy with a couple of quid if i get any. The thing that gets me is the Jehovna witnesses still accept them even though they dont celibrate christmas.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

AFAIK all leave arrangements are agreed locally with the Union so again a good reason to join as if you don't agree you will need to table a motion at an AGM, EGM or branch meeting and get enough support to change it. Ain't democracy good.

[jafferpants]

does this mean next year i shall be first?.......
cos im not getting that impression at work
this sysytem suits no one except the long service guys
just because someone been doing the job 30years or 6 months more,why should they get first pick there already thanked with more holiday
just 4 miles down the road at langport there on first cum first served

Kingsmoor thats interesting that you feel because someone was in the job before you they should not get to pick first. So if you happen to be first in line for some bargain or tickets etc- and i walk up out of the blue at the last minuet you will have no problem with me going in front of you. Or as i suspect will you say "Oy mate do you mind i was here first".

[LUV THE SMELL OF LETTERS]

We normally rotate the hols. Like if you wernt off in summer last year its your turn this year plus swaps and stuff. It only goes against you this sort of thing if you have a weak manager who bows down to the senior staff or a right twat who likes to show whos boss

[che-guevara]

In our office, we where informed by the DIM 3 yrs ago, that holiday allocation had been changed & the new system works this way.
There are 52 staff members in our office, as all previous years had worked on seniority, this year the first entitlement will go to the person who is fifth on the seniority, next year tenth the following year fiveteenth. Like I said, that was 3 years ago, this year the twentieth person on the seniority list will get his or her choice, we have had no complaints since it came in because where ever it starts, it moves down the list so in the first year the most senior 5 had the last choices.
The long service guys & girls moaned a bit the first year, but not a single complaint since.
As for me, I am 38th on the list & have always managed to get the dates i have wanted, so no complaints from me anyway.
Hope thats clear enough for you all.

[Carnoustie]

Che-quevara and curly1975: neither of you have said what happens in your 'alternative methods' of allocation when a new entrant joins your office, or someone transfers-in from another office. Where in the pecking-order do you put such individuals, when their first full leave pick comes around ?

If it's at the top, how do you justify it ? And why should they get first preference ??
If it's at the bottom, because they're new, how do you justify that to the individual concerned (irrespective of whether they've got 30 years service OR 3 weeks service) when you're both so opposed to any sort of seniority ??
If it's somewhere else, what criteria are you using to select exactly where in the pecking order you place them ?? And how do you explain to the person directly below them in the list why they won't now get the holiday dates they were expecting after the rubbish dates they got the previous year ??

Seniority is no more or less fair than any other system. But it's easy to understand and isn't fraught with all the difficulties I have touched on in the above

[apple]

in our DO the list is split into groups of ten, each group is moved up then the top go the bottom on a rotation basis i like others have seen it before, think it's in some agreement i have seen, seniority is not to be used in the leave pick

new starters or transfers, go to the bottom of the list, however have know it that if some one leaves then they get there leave pick if they want it