Scan in/out

[redrobbo]

Do we have to sign to go to the toilet I'm just wondering because I've a very weak bladder and worried I might be disciplined

[kazardaimenu]

If it's not been agreed by the UNION which it hasn't, they will force it through with executive action. If that's the case forget about going that extra mile during xmas.

I personally think the agency staff you see now will be here to stay beyond xmas. Simon is not budging & neither are we.

Will he not fire them all on Christmas Eve again to keep them on side for when he wants them back?

[SpacePhoenix]

Are we expected to take our break then? Because if you scan out before your time it will pick this up and presume you’ve had breaks, also how does this work in shared vans with full timers and part timers on different breaks and start times

Think the system would probably just assume that you've gone home early

[Bosley]

Yep - you're not allowed to finish on a break RM policy, I am afraid, it will log you as leaving early, and pay will be deducted. Come in at your official start time, take your breaks, and go home at your finish time, it's not rocket science.

[matthew68]

Yep - you're not allowed to finish on a break RM policy, I am afraid, it will log you as leaving early, and pay will be deducted. Come in at your official start time, take your breaks, and go home at your finish time, it's not rocket science.

I know it’s not rocket science but rep was saying the other day we only need to take half are break, so I was questioning whether it would be ok then to scan out say 20 minutes early without being penalized. Thanks for answering

[2yearpostie]

Yep - you're not allowed to finish on a break RM policy, I am afraid, it will log you as leaving early, and pay will be deducted. Come in at your official start time, take your breaks, and go home at your finish time, it's not rocket science.

ffs , its not being used to dock pay (yet), its a simple replacement for pen and paper ( at the moment)

If your com tells you to flex your time you can no pay will be docked
if your com asks you to work ot before or after a shift you can, it doesnt affect pay.

[Woody Guthrie]

We've been told we're getting it by end of month, no discussion, it's happening.
Union rep never said a word..

I do wonder sometimes what people think a union rep can and can't do.

The union position is that we can't physically stop them installing these machines, it's their money and their property and it isn't the. 1800s and it would be dangerous to advise members not to use what is on the face of it simply a replacement for a paper system of signing in and out, refusing to use it would likely end in suspension.

Where the arguments and disagreements will come is what they propose to do with any data collected, as far as we're concerned it's simply a record of signing in and out and that's where its uses begin and end.

Other than that I'm not sure what you expect the union to do, issue every member with a pair of Sabots to lob at the machines?

[Surreypostie]

We've been told we're getting it by end of month, no discussion, it's happening.
Union rep never said a word..

I do wonder sometimes what people think a union rep can and can't do.

The union position is that we can't physically stop them installing these machines, it's their money and their property and it isn't the. 1800s and it would be dangerous to advise members not to use what is on the face of it simply a replacement for a paper system of signing in and out, refusing to use it would likely end in suspension.

Where the arguments and disagreements will come is what they propose to do with any data collected, as far as we're concerned it's simply a record of signing in and out and that's where its uses begin and end.

Other than that I'm not sure what you expect the union to do, issue every member with a pair of Sabots to lob at the machines?

Well said, think of the money they will save also, just the amount of sheets of paper and ink printing these things off every day, will probably save a fortune over the cost of a year. For me, scanning in and out is no big deal. It will show up who is going home early and who isn't, if we all signed in and out as we should do they would have that information anyway, this is just a digital means of capturing it. In my office we have people that never sign in and others that once they have signed in never sign out, now we will all have to.

[clashcityrocker]

... issue every member with a pair of Sabots to lob at the machines?

Off topic but that is the first time the word sabot has been used on RMC since 2008 (and then it was a completely different context by TBT)
The only person to ever use sabot to mean footwear was IWW Fellow Worker back in 2007.

[Dexydog]

The point I was making is the union rep didn't speak out to reassure against the obvious ulterior motive.
Was it not supposed to be trialled first under agreements made between RM and the union?
If so, surely he should have stated this is the case, the trials have been completed and there's nothing to worry about.
We either have agreements or we don't.
The following day the union was expecting everyone to go out on strike.
Seems to me they're toothless to stop anything RM want to bring in.
If that's the case, fine- we roll over and let it happen.
If not, he should be telling us its not been fully agreed and put in a disagreement.
Just saying it how it is, otherwise what's the point in striking- perhaps the union need to start being more honest about what our chances are, not just with this but with all the other things they may just bring in and we can't stop.

[Woody Guthrie]

Personally I'm not sure what meaningful information Royal Mail can get from this system that isn't available in even more detail from the already agreed PDA actuals.

Just because someone signs/scans out at the correct time doesn't tell you much about anything. They may have had 3 cups of coffee and completed 20 levels of Candy Crush since coming back from delivery.

If you're going to use it to manage flexi-hours then you're going to have to use the PDA data anyway so I'm struggling to see the "win" for the business.

[Dexydog]

I see where you're coming from.
But at the ground level we just see stuff being brought in and nothing is said.
You say pda actuals was agreed- is it not agreed that those can't be used for conduct cases?
The fact is no-one knows because we're not told anything.
At the same time being asked to strike.
I ask again- ultimately what is the point, when it's increasingly obvious executive action is just used to bulldoze anything they want through.
2% was just the start of it.
I fully appreciate ST isn't minded to negotiate on pay unless terms are also discussed- fine, discuss them and concede a little.
Seems to me maybe the union is being just as pig headed as RM.
Otherwise we're just delaying the inevitable whilst losing money many people can't afford.
I'm trying not be defeatist, just realistic.

[2yearpostie]

I see where you're coming from.
But at the ground level we just see stuff being brought in and nothing is said.
You say pda actuals was agreed- is not agreed that those can be used for conduct cases?
The fact is no-one knows because we're not told anything.
At the same time being asked to strike.
I ask again- ultimately what is the point, when it's increasingly obvious executive action is just used to bulldoze anything they want through.
2% was just the start of it.
I fully appreciate ST isn't minded to negotiate on pay unless terms are also discussed- fine, discuss them and concede a little.
Seems to me maybe the union is being just as pig headed as RM.
Otherwise we're just delaying the inevitable whilst losing money many people can't afford.
I'm trying not be defeatist, just realistic.

AT LAST SOMEONE AGREES WITH ME

[Woody Guthrie]

Seems to me maybe the union is being just as pig headed as RM.

The union has certain lines in the sand that at the moment the business is refusing to make concessions on.

This might seem like the union are being stubborn but it is in fact the opposite, it is being ultra-realistic.

The union knows that unless there is some movement on these key issues there is absolutely zero chance of the membership accepting any proposed deal which would mean that the union would probably lose control of the entire dispute.

What may seem like pig headedness is in fact situation awareness, there is only one shot at this, no do-overs.

[2chorizon]

Moving to electronic clocking in systems allows companies to greatly reduce payroll costs and payroll staff. (By automating most of it)
And greatly reduce the oportunities for fraud.

That is the primary reason for most companies. (This has been around in all industries since the early 90's!)

Once SISO is "linked to pay" then monthly pay will likely follow very shortly too.
(Another big payroll saving and probably linked to the push for annualised hours where they keep saying we will get the same pay every month all year round etc)

And yes im sure its data can be harvested for other nefarious means but it's primary reason for installation will be to make massive savings from the Payroll dept.