Plan b

[stevejm]

If you think all we do is push mail and packets through a door i am afraid you need your head checking.

Sometimes we put them in greenhouses etc.
We take pictures of things.
We pick up parcels and empty boxes.
We get signatures for some things.

I am struggling to think what else I did today on delivery.

We walk 8/12 miles a day every day no matter the weather whilst we do those duties. As Thompson used to say - "you are professional athletes"

that is why any comparison to drivers of other delivery companies is totally redundant. If and when RM gets rid of walking TWO MARATHONS WEEKLY, that is when our roles could be justifiably compared to the roles of workers in DPD, Hermes, UPS etc.

[LouBarlow]

If you think all we do is push mail and packets through a door i am afraid you need your head checking.

Sometimes we put them in greenhouses etc.
We take pictures of things.
We pick up parcels and empty boxes.
We get signatures for some things.

I am struggling to think what else I did today on delivery.

We walk 8/12 miles a day every day no matter the weather whilst we do those duties. As Thompson used to say - "you are professional athletes"

that is why any comparison to drivers of other delivery companies is totally redundant. If and when RM gets rid of walking TWO MARATHONS WEEKLY, that is when our roles could be justifiably compared to the roles of workers in DPD, Hermes, UPS etc.

DPD still operate as an owner-driver delivery firm. They have zero listings for vacancies for drivers employed by them, so you are basically self-employed and have to weigh up costs, securing a van etc. If you are lucky and manage to land one of their courier roles (e.g. they give you a van) then you will be considerably more busy than we ever are. They do not work their hours and go home. Have a chat with a DPD driver while out on delivery. If they have the time.

Hermes, again self employed, and even better, you get paid by the parcel. UPS don’t even have a single vacancy for delivery drivers on their site. Even if this deal gets voted through and we accept lesser T&Cs we will still be far better served than any other courier service out there. Maybe what it *will* do is tame the smug attitude a lot of posties have towards these couriers, who seem to think they are somehow better than them. They are doing the same job, often for less money and more hassle, but they are doing the same unskilled job as you and I.

[stevejm]

Growing the business should not involve eroding our terms and conditions its as simple as that

Changes to sick pay, IHR, performance management via PDA and annualised hours is nothing to do with growing the business to make it more profitable - its simply robbing Peter to pay Paul

Its privatisation the money is took out for shareholders and higher ups get used to it its to big of a machine to stop,its just set up that way look at what Simon Thompson has just done,the union are just there to slow things down abit now.

You have come to accept that it is too big to stop - but the history of the union movement is about the battles that David fought to overcome Goliath. As I always say to my son, if you don't ask you won't get. Time after time after time I prove to him that is correct. The same can be said of fighting off bullies and any form of repression.

If you don't resist those who would demean you, lessen you, rob you ... then the natural tendency is that they continue. Hyper capitalism is all about indirectly making your child's life worse, making your family's ability to enjoy life worse, making your health outcomes worse - by reducing your standard of living over the months and years. The most apt analogy I can think of is that of a python slowly constricting the life from its prey.

So, in this struggle, if you acquiesce now they will be back in a year or two to take more. And just with defending an attack from a python, the sooner you struggle the more chance of surviving intact you have.

If this was a gang of teenagers throwing stones and breaking your windows every Friday night, what would you do? You'd go to the police right? But what if the police had entered an agreement with the gang to not interfere to stop their own windows being broken?

Now what are you going to do? Your best bet would be to gather all the other householders together and resist.

You'll mention this to the other householders and a fair few are going to say it's pointless and it will only make things worse.

Nothing will come of your efforts.

But a few weeks later the gangs are now stealing parts from the cars parked on your driveways.

Next time you mention action there are decidedly more neighbours prepared to do something. They are all incensed and regretful that they hadn't heeded your advice earlier. For now, not only are they replacing windows but they are also having to replace windows, wing mirrors and hubs from their vandalised cars.

It is never too late to struggle and resist. Even a simple fish never stops struggling, from the moment it feels the hook in its cheek to the moment it is landed on a boat in an alien environment. We can do better than fish.

[funkflex55]

If anyone could point out which of these roles pays the same as we do, I’d be grateful…and gets holiday pay……and (still!) sick pay….

I’ll wait.

And can someone post the relevant percentage that McDonalds pays into the pension scheme for their employees.
Ta.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... dsJiwNKaor

[stevejm]

We walk 8/12 miles a day every day no matter the weather whilst we do those duties. As Thompson used to say - "you are professional athletes"

that is why any comparison to drivers of other delivery companies is totally redundant. If and when RM gets rid of walking TWO MARATHONS WEEKLY, that is when our roles could be justifiably compared to the roles of workers in DPD, Hermes, UPS etc.

DPD still operate as an owner-driver delivery firm. They have zero listings for vacancies for drivers employed by them, so you are basically self-employed and have to weigh up costs, securing a van etc. If you are lucky and manage to land one of their courier roles (e.g. they give you a van) then you will be considerably more busy than we ever are. They do not work their hours and go home. Have a chat with a DPD driver while out on delivery. If they have the time.

Hermes, again self employed, and even better, you get paid by the parcel. UPS don’t even have a single vacancy for delivery drivers on their site. Even if this deal gets voted through and we accept lesser T&Cs we will still be far better served than any other courier service out there. Maybe what it *will* do is tame the smug attitude a lot of posties have towards these couriers, who seem to think they are somehow better than them. They are doing the same job, often for less money and more hassle, but they are doing the same unskilled job as you and I.

They are absolutely NOT doing the SAME job. They are doing a different job. Both are unskilled jobs. But ours is proven to degrade your health. Correct me if I am wrong on this but the CWU (or maybe TUC) classify our job as 'heavy industrial' . That might seem strange to many. How could we be compared to miners/ steel workers/ shipbuilders.
But it is because the long term effects leave many of us needing joint replacements and retiring due to ill health caused by the rigors of the job.
That is why historically postal workers have always been paid a premium over and above shop workers and other unskilled workers.
Comparisons to workers in McDonalds and drivers (who I respect and don't hold a smug attitude towards) are unhelpful and off the mark.

[LouBarlow]

We walk 8/12 miles a day every day no matter the weather whilst we do those duties. As Thompson used to say - "you are professional athletes"

that is why any comparison to drivers of other delivery companies is totally redundant. If and when RM gets rid of walking TWO MARATHONS WEEKLY, that is when our roles could be justifiably compared to the roles of workers in DPD, Hermes, UPS etc.

DPD still operate as an owner-driver delivery firm. They have zero listings for vacancies for drivers employed by them, so you are basically self-employed and have to weigh up costs, securing a van etc. If you are lucky and manage to land one of their courier roles (e.g. they give you a van) then you will be considerably more busy than we ever are. They do not work their hours and go home. Have a chat with a DPD driver while out on delivery. If they have the time.

Hermes, again self employed, and even better, you get paid by the parcel. UPS don’t even have a single vacancy for delivery drivers on their site. Even if this deal gets voted through and we accept lesser T&Cs we will still be far better served than any other courier service out there. Maybe what it *will* do is tame the smug attitude a lot of posties have towards these couriers, who seem to think they are somehow better than them. They are doing the same job, often for less money and more hassle, but they are doing the same unskilled job as you and I.

Comparisons to workers in McDonalds and drivers (who I respect and don't hold a smug attitude towards) are unhelpful and off the mark.

Why did you bring them up if they aren’t comparable?

[stevejm]

keep up Lou, other posters have in this thread

[Ppat98]

They are absolutely NOT doing the SAME job. They are doing a different job. Both are unskilled jobs. But ours is proven to degrade your health. Correct me if I am wrong on this but the CWU (or maybe TUC) classify our job as 'heavy industrial' . That might seem strange to many. How could we be compared to miners/ steel workers/ shipbuilders.
But it is because the long term effects leave many of us needing joint replacements and retiring due to ill health caused by the rigors of the job.
That is why historically postal workers have always been paid a premium over and above shop workers and other unskilled workers.
Comparisons to workers in McDonalds and drivers (who I respect and don't hold a smug attitude towards) are unhelpful and off the mark.

Yeah it's not the same job but as Lou said. It's reflected in the t&c's we have, which have been better than all these other companies for quite some time & even the new proposed changes are still very much better than these other companies.

So the "we work much harder" arguement only holds weight if the t&c's were comparable to the other delivery companies.

& The only reason McDonald's was brought up was because some1 tried to use that in their reasoning to vote no.

[richietns]

Growing the business should not involve eroding our terms and conditions its as simple as that

Changes to sick pay, IHR, performance management via PDA and annualised hours is nothing to do with growing the business to make it more profitable - its simply robbing Peter to pay Paul

Its privatisation the money is took out for shareholders and higher ups get used to it its to big of a machine to stop,its just set up that way look at what Simon Thompson has just done,the union are just there to slow things down abit now.

You have come to accept that it is too big to stop - but the history of the union movement is about the battles that David fought to overcome Goliath. As I always say to my son, if you don't ask you won't get. Time after time after time I prove to him that is correct. The same can be said of fighting off bullies and any form of repression.

If you don't resist those who would demean you, lessen you, rob you ... then the natural tendency is that they continue. Hyper capitalism is all about indirectly making your child's life worse, making your family's ability to enjoy life worse, making your health outcomes worse - by reducing your standard of living over the months and years. The most apt analogy I can think of is that of a python slowly constricting the life from its prey.

So, in this struggle, if you acquiesce now they will be back in a year or two to take more. And just with defending an attack from a python, the sooner you struggle the more chance of surviving intact you have.

If this was a gang of teenagers throwing stones and breaking your windows every Friday night, what would you do? You'd go to the police right? But what if the police had entered an agreement with the gang to not interfere to stop their own windows being broken?

Now what are you going to do? Your best bet would be to gather all the other householders together and resist.

You'll mention this to the other householders and a fair few are going to say it's pointless and it will only make things worse.

Nothing will come of your efforts.

But a few weeks later the gangs are now stealing parts from the cars parked on your driveways.

Next time you mention action there are decidedly more neighbours prepared to do something. They are all incensed and regretful that they hadn't heeded your advice earlier. For now, not only are they replacing windows but they are also having to replace windows, wing mirrors and hubs from their vandalised cars.

It is never too late to struggle and resist. Even a simple fish never stops struggling, from the moment it feels the hook in its cheek to the moment it is landed on a boat in an alien environment. We can do better than fish.

It's just today's business model no need for all the analogies,you vote no if it makes you happy.

[TopperGas]

If you think all we do is push mail and packets through a door i am afraid you need your head checking.

Sometimes we put them in greenhouses etc.
We take pictures of things.
We pick up parcels and empty boxes.
We get signatures for some things.

I am struggling to think what else I did today on delivery.

We walk 8/12 miles a day every day no matter the weather whilst we do those duties. As Thompson used to say - "you are professional athletes"

that is why any comparison to drivers of other delivery companies is totally redundant. If and when RM gets rid of walking TWO MARATHONS WEEKLY, that is when our roles could be justifiably compared to the roles of workers in DPD, Hermes, UPS etc.

DPD still operate as an owner-driver delivery firm. They have zero listings for vacancies for drivers employed by them, so you are basically self-employed and have to weigh up costs, securing a van etc. If you are lucky and manage to land one of their courier roles (e.g. they give you a van) then you will be considerably more busy than we ever are. They do not work their hours and go home. Have a chat with a DPD driver while out on delivery. If they have the time.

Hermes, again self employed, and even better, you get paid by the parcel. UPS don’t even have a single vacancy for delivery drivers on their site. Even if this deal gets voted through and we accept lesser T&Cs we will still be far better served than any other courier service out there. Maybe what it *will* do is tame the smug attitude a lot of posties have towards these couriers, who seem to think they are somehow better than them. They are doing the same job, often for less money and more hassle, but they are doing the same unskilled job as you and I.

You can't compare a courier drivers job to one walking streets delivering mail

[LouBarlow]

keep up Lou, other posters have in this thread

I’m up, I’m just not sure why you have brought up other couriers to make a point, as well as miners bizarrely, when you then go on to claim that we aren’t like any of them because we walk a bit.

[Nickvilla20]

Couriers do a 10 - 12 hour day mostly they do their deliveries and then have to do collections. I seen an add for DHL where they have compulsory flexing up in their contracts.

One guy in my office used to work for Yodel and reckons Royal Mail is a breeze compared to working for them.

[Ppat98]

keep up Lou, other posters have in this thread

You need to keep up by the looks of it.

"Comparisons to workers in McDonalds and drivers (who I respect and don't hold a smug attitude towards) are unhelpful and off the mark."

Hans solo brought up McDonald's but he's gone quiet now though.

[clashcityrocker]

Hans solo brought up McDonald's but he's gone quiet now though.

Let's be thankful for small mercies.

[Ppat98]