Pensions

[IWW Fellow Worker]

IWW - as ever with your type you employ your interlect to the discussion.

You could use reasoning or back up your point - but no.

F**K off is the best you can come up with.

Anyone who disagrees with your own limited opinions and experiences is branded a fascist.

No wonder no agreement can be reached on the areas where the postal workers are being treated unfairly(pensions) when they are dealing with people like you that frankly should be sacked.

If you hit the real world and fully employed your talents ("would you like fries with that") then you would stop whinging

Whinging.

[stephen500]

- you on the other hand are a member of the whinging socialist brigade whom the service can well do without

And the capitalists have done so much for the working man!
Thats why about 95% of the wealth in this country is in about 3% of the elites hands!

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Whilst I have a great deal of sympathy for the moving goalposts on pensions for those already enrolled what is wrong with closing the scheme to further members?Most people in the private sector have to put up with money purchase schemes so why not new members to yours?

Beacuse when I retire in 20 years there will be nothing left becuase no more contributions will be paid in.

RM is loosing money and needs to move into the 21st Century to survive -you guys need to do the same.

RM is loosing money because of bad mangement why should they get £350,000 bonus for 1 of them yet 150,000 workers get a pay cut. They set the price for DSA at 13p (loosing 5p per letter) we didn't

I understand the anger over the changes to existing pension contributers T&Cs but other than this I think you are lemmings for striking - essentially you are hammering in the nails of your coffin

So whats your advice if you disagree with something. Lay on your back and ask to be tickled.

At the end of the day if the new T&C's are so bad then why don't you guys go and get another job?

Because we like our job and are trying to keep it as a public service where everyone benefits, instead of a profit orientated business where only a few profit.

Simple - jobs elsewhere would be paying minimum wage without a pension at all!!!

and you think that's right. Don't you have the strength to stand up for what you believe in.

[IWW Fellow Worker]

- you on the other hand are a member of the whinging socialist brigade whom the service can well do without

And the capitalists have done so much for the working man!
Thats why about 95% of the wealth in this country is in about 3% of the elites hands!

Quite right. The way these idiots champion a system which has broken down into two world wars, a Great Depression and countless other conflicts and disasters within the last 100 years really does show them up as the stupid stooges they are.

[moanmoanmoan]

True Blue Terrier -Good point.

Look at the heavily unionised indstries of old - ship building, car manufacture, bike manufacture, coal mining - Industrial action and an unwillingness to modernise killed them all!!

[IWW Fellow Worker]

I wouldn't bother replying Teebs. If this daft bastard had read the things the EC had been saying for the last seven months, he would know exactly where we stand on modernisation. He's a troll.

[moanmoanmoan]

dvbuk55,
Sorry to disapoint you but the education process was great.

University at a time when there were still grants paid for by the rest of the working population and when 10% attended not 50%

The degree was from an OK university (Bristol) in Mechanical Engineering.

I am not, nor ever have been on the dole.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

True Blue Terrier -Good point.

Look at the heavily unionised indstries of old - ship building, car manufacture, bike manufacture, coal mining - Industrial action and an unwillingness to modernise killed them all!!

You see we are willing to Modernise and we see the reason for it. Royal Mail Modernisation plans at the moment are:

As full time posties on 40 hours leave - bring in Part Timers on 1 hr contracts.
Stop collecting mail on bank holidays and Sundays
Bring forward collection times
Make deliveries Later in the day. (now possible that mail at your local box is collected before you get your own mail)
Stop us taking our meal breaks at the end of a round (we did that and people got their mail earlier)
Close Post Offices.
Bring in P in P which makes it more expensive and more confusing for the general public.
Closing Collection Offices at 1230 (they used to stay open till 1800)

The union opposed Job and Finish when Crozier brought it in and now they are using it to say we finish 2 hrs early. The drawback of them doing this is that postie will no longer do the job quickly to get home earlier, so the postie will slow down to a normal pace and deliveries will become later.

We as a union want mechanisation to come in (that is modernisation) and accept this will cause job losses but Royal Mail are moving very slowly with this.
We also want the equipment they have been promising us for years but still have not seen.

Basically we want Modernisation as it will make our job easier and we can provide a better service, but Royal Mails approach is to cut back services and the support infrastructure before the equipment and practices needed to make modernisation work are put in place. This backwards approach is ensuring that modernisation will fail and therefore as workers within the system we are fighting to stop RM effectively destroying a public service.

[moanmoanmoan]

True Blue Terrier - Good points well made.

I hope things get sorted.

My earlier point on pensions was not that contributions should stop. Essentially those already in the scheme should continue under the same terms.
My suggestion was that the current scheme should finish and be replaced with a more sustainable option for new members of staff.

I do not agree with RM moving the goalposts and changing your current agreement.

I also agree with your point re mail pricing - at the end of the day the decline of the RM began with deregulation.
The other mail services that are now winning much of the lucritave business mail are still using posties to deliver.
So the advantage is?
Oh yes TNT etc now make money that should be heading to RM.

I am not anti RM workers standing up for fair and reasonable rights and conditions.

You do have to admit that some of the work practices employed are a bit 1970's

On the same note I believe that the RM management come from the 1870's and that a lot of the new proposals are absurd.

Your points have been fair and reasoned

What does irritate me is the 1970's "up the workers" stance from some of your board members

[moanmoanmoan]

True Blue Terrier - One other point.

Your union has done a p*ss poor job of getting your side of the story out in the media.

this needs looking at to ensure the general public receive a more balanced view.

Your members pay your union leaders a lot of money - make them earn it and play the same game as the RM management.

I fully agree with you that the renumeration package of your senior managers is excessive - they have however won the media battle.

At the moment most of the general public feel that the posties do a good job but that because of the media the job is a sinecure.

Win the media battle and you will have more chance of concluding the dispute.

I would also suggest gagging members such as IWW as he is ideal media fodder - the 1970's dinosaur determined to kill a great institution

[IWW Fellow Worker]

True Blue Terrier - One other point.

Your union has done a p*ss poor job of getting your side of the story out in the media.

this needs looking at to ensure the general public receive a more balanced view.

Your members pay your union leaders a lot of money - make them earn it and play the same game as the RM management.

I fully agree with you that the renumeration package of your senior managers is excessive - they have however won the media battle.

At the moment most of the general public feel that the posties do a good job but that because of the media the job is a sinecure.

Win the media battle and you will have more chance of concluding the dispute.

I would also suggest gagging members such as IWW as he is ideal media fodder - the 1970's dinosaur determined to kill a great institution

Little Lord Fountleroy is having a pop at me! Whatever will I do? At least while he's doing this, he isn't telling us all how it's only right that screws and strike breakers get free food when they're breaking the strike. Right mate! Off you pop. Get your teddy bear and sod off like a good little troll.

[moanmoanmoan]

IWW - as ever you do not disapoint - you call me Little Lord Fauntleroy - why? note the spelling by the way - good attempt at an insult however - much more origional than your usual f**k off.

Over time maybe you could progress to reasoned discussion rather than snipes and insults. Evolution is a wonderful process and I wish you luck in the progression to walking upright. Whilst the PG tips ads are amusing they are not really dignified.

I am just a guy who has to work hard to keep his small business running - I am not a layabout fat cat. I wonder therefore why you chose to make this comment?

With regard to my comments on free food I thought that as a true 1970's leftie you would approve - a bonus for the workers!!

Oh I forgot - we have differing opinions of the worker definition.

Mine includes carrying out a useful function whilst you - the Austin Powers of the 1970's consider that the term worker means having conned someone into empoying you - and then concentrating all efforts into whinging and avoiding all constructive endeavour.

I bet your manager very confused by you - how can someone who produces so much sh*t from his mouth still spend two hours a day in the toilet!!

I do think that your talents are under utilized. I believe a well known fast food chain is always recruiting (at least there are options after you have f****d the RM).

Personally I find the cheesy grin and the fake smile along with the "can I take your order" somewhat irritating. We all know that they do not want to be there and they are not happy.

IWW you could bring integrity to the role (by being a miserable whinging b*****d) combined with inefficiency and malevolence to both customers and management.
In all it would be far more genuine and also fully utilize your talents. It would also give you the opportunity to discuss the wonders of communism with your fellow workers. Your Polish co-workers could reminiss over the good old days of empty shops and food queues - and the current situation in which they earn four times the wage flipping burgers than thay can in Poland.

I am also informed that if you worked(sorry attended and whinged) for 100 hours a week you would take home the same wage that you do now.
However you may have to take a different view on sick time. General private enterprise will not lay you off on full pay for stress when:
Your football team looses
Your football team wins
Your football team has a big match next week
Your manager upsets you - i.e. asks you to do some work
Your manager upsets you - complains that you spent two hours in the toilet

I do have a teddy bear - purchased for me by my daughter. I will not however pop off at the request of a throwback to the 1970's.

99.95% of the RM are genuine - IWW you on the other hand are an example of what is killing support for your union's action -a dinosaur from the 1970's.

I am hoping from my previous lesson that history repeats itself - dinosaurs are now extinct.

[stephen500]

dvbuk55,
Sorry to disapoint you but the education process was great.

University at a time when there were still grants paid for by the rest of the working population and when 10% attended not 50%

The degree was from an OK university (Bristol) in Mechanical Engineering.

I am not, nor ever have been on the dole.

But note that you had a grant and your university education was free!
But who took that away..Mr Blair the great socialist!
The great working class squeeze in on.
1) make it too expensive for the working class to attend university.
Result: Degree becomes restrictive to middle class and above, therefore its value increases once again.
2) Reduce the amount of maufacturing and mannual jobs and therefore ensure the working class have to compete with a suplus of labour which in turns reduces wages.
3) Ensure the whole country is a mortgaged society, therefore limiting industrial through ensuring fear of loss of property.
I could go on!

[moanmoanmoan]

I agree

[dvbuk55]

dvbuk55,
Sorry to disapoint you but the education process was great.

University at a time when there were still grants paid for by the rest of the working population and when 10% attended not 50%

The degree was from an OK university (Bristol) in Mechanical Engineering.

I am not, nor ever have been on the dole.

Well I wasn't far away with the lego then or the Kentucky association. I am surprised you manage to find work when as you say our industrial base has been destroyed by workers such as we. My brother is an electrical engineer, sigh........, he must be so ashamed of having a relative without an education. Still, is a lettered education an advantage or merely a label. Woe is me - over sixty and still oppressed.