Delivering to Flats

[mazza111]

So a couple of points.

The delivery point is the boxes. AFAIK that means the postman doesn't need to come up to your flat.

Signing for recorded/tracked is a no no. I wouldn't accept this as not receiving a refund/replacement as it's obviously not your signature. And would be taking that further.

It would be your best bet to meet the postman when he's delivering, then you can see if there's any parcels for you.

Unfortunately with communal letterboxes/parcel boxes, theft does happen. The only way you can stop it is to either get your own box or meet the postie, as the prior isn't allowed, the latter is the only thing possible, unless you can get RM to change your delivery point, which I don't see them doing. The only time a postie is allowed on their duty is to the delivery point.

[not me]

I dont really care what RM CS tells you
they have no idea what goes on in delivery.why would they,its really nothing they will be informed about
more so that DO mangers dont tell their managers what really goes on,so how would non delivery depts know.
if you think delivery postman only take letterbox sizes packets then you are sorely mistaken
they can be up to shoebox size
again you are missing the point
'a few minutes'
DOs dont have enough staff.staff are under pressure every day to complete and take extra deliveries
this happens nationwide
I have already given you my advice on a solution
if you wish to constantly spend your time chasing RM and dealing with this then its your choice
this is the reality of tens of thousands of staff cuts in deliveries

To be awkward and look at it from the residents point of view if they are 61 apartments and you ring the intercom for 5 asking them all to come down the foyer most of them will take the lift. We have 2 lifts in our building and when not in use they stay on the ground floor, I live on the 9th floor and it does take time for it to reach the floor so I can use it, if people are already using it you can't do anything other than wait. To be even more annoying because of this it would be quicker for the postman to use the lift himself or he should at least understand this.

As our old postman actually came to the front door I don't think times an issue on this round (I understand it might be on some). The round is mostly commercial, office buildings and apartments. There aren't any 'real' houses in the area that haven't been converted into commercial properties flats.

you dont think its an issue with the round
perhaps your old postie didt take breaks
came in early for free
used his car
worked over every day
you seem happy to argue the toss
I gave you a practical solution
if it would be easier for the postie to use the lift,why are you going to the foyer?

[clashcityrocker]

To be awkward and look at it from the residents point of view if they are 61 apartments and you ring the intercom for 5 asking them all to come down the foyer most of them will take the lift. .

If he had 5 packets for 5 different people, how would he know who had come down for what?
Or if one of the people was just randomly passing through or just going out and wasn't one of the 5 he had buzzed?
Would he have to have to ask for identity for each and every one?
Would he be expected to stand and wait while Mrs X went back up to the ninth floor to get different ID because the packet was in her maiden name and she had come down with her passport which is in her married name?

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

To be awkward and look at it from the residents point of view if they are 61 apartments and you ring the intercom for 5 asking them all to come down the foyer most of them will take the lift. .

If he had 5 packets for 5 different people, how would he know who had come down for what?
Or if one of the people was just randomly passing through or just going out and wasn't one of the 5 he had buzzed?
Would he have to have to ask for identity for each and every one?
Would he be expected to stand and wait while Mrs X went back up to the ninth floor to get different ID because the packet was in her maiden name and she had come down with her passport which is in her married name?

but what he shouldnt do is sign for them himself and leave them in the foyer for anyone to pick up which is what happened to this customer that started all this in the first place

[clashcityrocker]

but what he shouldnt do is sign for them himself and leave them in the foyer for anyone to pick up which is what happened to this customer that started all this in the first place

I agree.
But the poor posties don't actually know what to do.
One has taken it upon himself to sign for them and leave them lying about (poor choice)
The second has decided not to take them out at all (bizarre choice)

What no-one has done is provide a link to the correct procedure to follow and it seems customer services has been giving out conflicting information.
What is the correct procedure written down in black and white that is easy for anyone to follow?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

The correct procedure is the one being done already by the postman - ie no packet and leave the card - I know but thats the rules for Multi-occupancy flats with central delivery points.

http://www.royalmail.com/customer-servi ... -addresses" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you live or occupy business premises in a location where our delivery staff only have access to a single point where they deliver mail for multiple residences or premises within that location, this is considered to be a multi-occupied address.

Where delivery arrangements already exist where a facility is provided such as a central point for the delivery of mail or the provision of external lockable letter boxes at a building/site, these will be deemed as the delivery point for the individual addresses. In such circumstances, Royal Mail will not perform deliveries to individual residences or business premises, if requested by individual customers, even if the delivery standard criteria below are met.

Residential Locations

Where separate facilities are provided for each residence, we will only deliver mail directly to your residence or to a centrally located box corresponding to your residence, provided all of the following conditions are met:

1. Your residence is a self-contained property and is separately and individually rated by the local authority for council tax purposes.
2. Your residence can be clearly identified (with a number, letter or name) and has its own letterbox (or a secure lockable receptacle that clearly corresponds to the residence)
3. Our delivery staff can gain safe and easy access to perform delivery to your residence.
4. The residence is a permanent structure

Should any of the conditions above not be met then we are not obliged to deliver mail directly to your residence. Instead, we will deliver your mail to a suitable central reception point or letterbox for your location, together with other mail for this location.

Changes to Delivery Arrangements

Any requests to change current delivery arrangements for any multi-occupied location will be dealt with on the following basis:

Any review of the delivery arrangements for the location must include all the residences/business premises.

Any such requests must come from the building or site owner (or similar) who commits to ensuring that delivery arrangements are similar (where appropriate) for all residences or business at the location.
If a communal delivery point is provided and an occupant of an address contained within a multi-occupied location requests a delivery to their individual address, we are not obliged to provide this.

However, the best option is to build a rapport with the regular postie and get to know them, they are more likely to "go beyond the letter of the rules" if treated in a friendly manner - although of course it ain't guaranteed.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

but what he shouldnt do is sign for them himself and leave them in the foyer for anyone to pick up which is what happened to this customer that started all this in the first place

I agree.
But the poor posties don't actually know what to do.
One has taken it upon himself to sign for them and leave them lying about (poor choice)
The second has decided not to take them out at all (bizarre choice)

What no-one has done is provide a link to the correct procedure to follow and it seems customer services has been giving out conflicting information.
What is the correct procedure written down in black and white that is easy for anyone to follow?

but what did happen was customer complained and it was agreed to deliver them all to her door by the DOM rightly or wrong, regardless the DOM agreed to have them all taken to her door so thats what should continue to happen until the DOM decides otherwise and if he has or did change his mind he should contact her and explain his reasons why

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

The correct procedure is the one being done already by the postman - ie no packet and leave the card - I know but thats the rules for Multi-occupancy flats with central delivery points.

http://www.royalmail.com/customer-servi ... -addresses" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you live or occupy business premises in a location where our delivery staff only have access to a single point where they deliver mail for multiple residences or premises within that location, this is considered to be a multi-occupied address.

Where delivery arrangements already exist where a facility is provided such as a central point for the delivery of mail or the provision of external lockable letter boxes at a building/site, these will be deemed as the delivery point for the individual addresses. In such circumstances, Royal Mail will not perform deliveries to individual residences or business premises, if requested by individual customers, even if the delivery standard criteria below are met.

Residential Locations

Where separate facilities are provided for each residence, we will only deliver mail directly to your residence or to a centrally located box corresponding to your residence, provided all of the following conditions are met:

1. Your residence is a self-contained property and is separately and individually rated by the local authority for council tax purposes.
2. Your residence can be clearly identified (with a number, letter or name) and has its own letterbox (or a secure lockable receptacle that clearly corresponds to the residence)
3. Our delivery staff can gain safe and easy access to perform delivery to your residence.
4. The residence is a permanent structure

Should any of the conditions above not be met then we are not obliged to deliver mail directly to your residence. Instead, we will deliver your mail to a suitable central reception point or letterbox for your location, together with other mail for this location.

theres actually a loophole in there that the OP could exploit, assuming its individual boxes and not a communal one only though, she could have her box removed physically and providing she has a letter box on her door then by rights the delivery would have to go to her door, reasons being, No communal box, and No box for her delivery point even though there are delivery points for all the other addresses, she could argue successfull postcomm that RM must deliver to her door as no other delivery point for her address exists

[clashcityrocker]

1.The DOM has probably changed more times than the postie. The written agreement should be in the walklog.
2. I still don't see in that instruction Teebs that the postie would be exempt from taking the packet out and attempting delivery.

How does Georoute deal with multiple occupancy?
How does it allocate sufficient time for the postie to deliver these packets?

[youthnovels]

The police were involved and treated it as theft of post but I didn't get compensated or the items back. The police actually told me it was unlikely to happen when I first contacted them but at that point I had been contacting RM for a while and they weren't doing anything about the situation. I felt a bit petty going to the police but as soon as I did the problems stopped happening.
Also the problem the police had was with being unsure who stole the parcels. When they were left in the foyer in a pile you couldn't tell who each parcel belonged to and they (not me) even suggested that the postman might have stolen a few himself. There really was no way of knowing. I can't remember what they said about the signatures but it was along the same lines, either way I was left out of pocket.

As someone who lives in a flat I do think I deserve to receive the same service as someone who lives in a house. The guidelines here is what has been quoted to me by customer services again and again.
Posting to flats isn't any cheaper and the cashier doesn't say "this is bigger than a postbox the recipient may not receive it because..." when posting.
The whole lift/not knowing if the right person is going to the foyer is difficult to solve if the postman strictly wants to deliver the the delivery point only then they should aware of giving parcels to the right people and allowing a minute or two for a lift. The only other safe option looks like delivering to the door which it seems postmen don't want to do. (I can understand postmen not wanting to do this as some apartment buildings are like rabbit warrens). Otherwise there seems to be no other ways of delivering safely I don't think leaving cards and expecting someone to pay for their items to be sent to a PO should seriously be considered as delivering.
There is another 6 apartment buildings on my street alone is the RM really going to turn around and say to all these people they can't receive parcels because they only have a postbox and it takes too much time for the postman to ring the intercom and wait for a lift? Or got to the door? I'm not trying to start an argument but I do hope you can see it is unfair.

The building I live on is on a corner I can see the postman driving away but not arriving. Some weeks I might get parcels everyday, other weeks it might only be once. Deliveries come between 11-1 it is a long time to wait in the foyer to see if I might get a parcel that day.
I also order envelopes and jewellery boxes in large quantities (500 per order) they come in big packages there wouldn't be room for individual parcel boxes of that size. They would also need individual keys, for each building the postman would have to have a set of keys to each parcel box, unlock, put the parcel in and relock each individual box this alone would probably take the same time as waiting for a lift. He would still need to wait for someone to come down and sign for some parcels too. During the investigation a communal box was suggested but ruled out by both the police and RM as unsafe.
When I spoke to customer services they said I wouldn't be allowed to just seal up my own box, the whole set of postboxes would have to go. The management company of the building said they can't allow us to have postboxes in our doors (something to do with new safety regulations) and they can't put postboxes on each floor on the corridor as it is classed as a fire hazard.

[not me]

The correct procedure is the one being done already by the postman - ie no packet and leave the card - I know but thats the rules for Multi-occupancy flats with central delivery points.

http://www.royalmail.com/customer-servi ... -addresses" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you live or occupy business premises in a location where our delivery staff only have access to a single point where they deliver mail for multiple residences or premises within that location, this is considered to be a multi-occupied address.

Where delivery arrangements already exist where a facility is provided such as a central point for the delivery of mail or the provision of external lockable letter boxes at a building/site, these will be deemed as the delivery point for the individual addresses. In such circumstances, Royal Mail will not perform deliveries to individual residences or business premises, if requested by individual customers, even if the delivery standard criteria below are met.

Residential Locations

Where separate facilities are provided for each residence, we will only deliver mail directly to your residence or to a centrally located box corresponding to your residence, provided all of the following conditions are met:

1. Your residence is a self-contained property and is separately and individually rated by the local authority for council tax purposes.
2. Your residence can be clearly identified (with a number, letter or name) and has its own letterbox (or a secure lockable receptacle that clearly corresponds to the residence)
3. Our delivery staff can gain safe and easy access to perform delivery to your residence.
4. The residence is a permanent structure

Should any of the conditions above not be met then we are not obliged to deliver mail directly to your residence. Instead, we will deliver your mail to a suitable central reception point or letterbox for your location, together with other mail for this location.

theres actually a loophole in there that the OP could exploit, assuming its individual boxes and not a communal one only though, she could have her box removed physically and providing she has a letter box on her door then by rights the delivery would have to go to her door, reasons being, No communal box, and No box for her delivery point even though there are delivery points for all the other addresses, she could argue successfull postcomm that RM must deliver to her door as no other delivery point for her address exists

i which case they would need to provide access to the property

[not me]

The police were involved and treated it as theft of post but I didn't get compensated or the items back. The police actually told me it was unlikely to happen when I first contacted them but at that point I had been contacting RM for a while and they weren't doing anything about the situation. I felt a bit petty going to the police but as soon as I did the problems stopped happening.
Also the problem the police had was with being unsure who stole the parcels. When they were left in the foyer in a pile you couldn't tell who each parcel belonged to and they (not me) even suggested that the postman might have stolen a few himself. There really was no way of knowing. I can't remember what they said about the signatures but it was along the same lines, either way I was left out of pocket.

As someone who lives in a flat I do think I deserve to receive the same service as someone who lives in a house. The guidelines here is what has been quoted to me by customer services again and again.
Posting to flats isn't any cheaper and the cashier doesn't say "this is bigger than a postbox the recipient may not receive it because..." when posting.
The whole lift/not knowing if the right person is going to the foyer is difficult to solve if the postman strictly wants to deliver the the delivery point only then they should aware of giving parcels to the right people and allowing a minute or two for a lift. The only other safe option looks like delivering to the door which it seems postmen don't want to do. (I can understand postmen not wanting to do this as some apartment buildings are like rabbit warrens). Otherwise there seems to be no other ways of delivering safely I don't think leaving cards and expecting someone to pay for their items to be sent to a PO should seriously be considered as delivering.
There is another 6 apartment buildings on my street alone is the RM really going to turn around and say to all these people they can't receive parcels because they only have a postbox and it takes too much time for the postman to ring the intercom and wait for a lift? Or got to the door? I'm not trying to start an argument but I do hope you can see it is unfair.

The building I live on is on a corner I can see the postman driving away but not arriving. Some weeks I might get parcels everyday, other weeks it might only be once. Deliveries come between 11-1 it is a long time to wait in the foyer to see if I might get a parcel that day.
I also order envelopes and jewellery boxes in large quantities (500 per order) they come in big packages there wouldn't be room for individual parcel boxes of that size. They would also need individual keys, for each building the postman would have to have a set of keys to each parcel box, unlock, put the parcel in and relock each individual box this alone would probably take the same time as waiting for a lift. He would still need to wait for someone to come down and sign for some parcels too. During the investigation a communal box was suggested but ruled out by both the police and RM as unsafe.
When I spoke to customer services they said I wouldn't be allowed to just seal up my own box, the whole set of postboxes would have to go. The management company of the building said they can't allow us to have postboxes in our doors (something to do with new safety regulations) and they can't put postboxes on each floor on the corridor as it is classed as a fire hazard.

a minute or two
lets be honest,its more than that
'll say again
why not get an entry sytem fitted that allows you to give them access from your flat?
its your problem,not RMs or the posties
provide a practical solution or accept you will have problems
RM is a one size fits most service

[youthnovels]

The correct procedure is the one being done already by the postman - ie no packet and leave the card - I know but thats the rules for Multi-occupancy flats with central delivery points.

http://www.royalmail.com/customer-servi ... -addresses" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you live or occupy business premises in a location where our delivery staff only have access to a single point where they deliver mail for multiple residences or premises within that location, this is considered to be a multi-occupied address.

Where delivery arrangements already exist where a facility is provided such as a central point for the delivery of mail or the provision of external lockable letter boxes at a building/site, these will be deemed as the delivery point for the individual addresses. In such circumstances, Royal Mail will not perform deliveries to individual residences or business premises, if requested by individual customers, even if the delivery standard criteria below are met.

Residential Locations

Where separate facilities are provided for each residence, we will only deliver mail directly to your residence or to a centrally located box corresponding to your residence, provided all of the following conditions are met:

1. Your residence is a self-contained property and is separately and individually rated by the local authority for council tax purposes.
2. Your residence can be clearly identified (with a number, letter or name) and has its own letterbox (or a secure lockable receptacle that clearly corresponds to the residence)
3. Our delivery staff can gain safe and easy access to perform delivery to your residence.
4. The residence is a permanent structure

Should any of the conditions above not be met then we are not obliged to deliver mail directly to your residence. Instead, we will deliver your mail to a suitable central reception point or letterbox for your location, together with other mail for this location.

theres actually a loophole in there that the OP could exploit, assuming its individual boxes and not a communal one only though, she could have her box removed physically and providing she has a letter box on her door then by rights the delivery would have to go to her door, reasons being, No communal box, and No box for her delivery point even though there are delivery points for all the other addresses, she could argue successfull postcomm that RM must deliver to her door as no other delivery point for her address exists

i which case they would need to provide access to the property

The RM already know the door code to get in to the property the postmen who deliver letters let themselves in. Our old parcel man only rang the intercom to check people were in before carrying parcels up.
The management company have no issues with the RM letting themselves in but this isn't an option as they can't remove all the postboxes in the foyer to our doors or corridors on each floor for safety reasons

[Stormproof]

Mail Collect http://www.royalmail.com/delivery/outbo ... il-collect" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[youthnovels]

The police were involved and treated it as theft of post but I didn't get compensated or the items back. The police actually told me it was unlikely to happen when I first contacted them but at that point I had been contacting RM for a while and they weren't doing anything about the situation. I felt a bit petty going to the police but as soon as I did the problems stopped happening.
Also the problem the police had was with being unsure who stole the parcels. When they were left in the foyer in a pile you couldn't tell who each parcel belonged to and they (not me) even suggested that the postman might have stolen a few himself. There really was no way of knowing. I can't remember what they said about the signatures but it was along the same lines, either way I was left out of pocket.

As someone who lives in a flat I do think I deserve to receive the same service as someone who lives in a house. The guidelines here is what has been quoted to me by customer services again and again.
Posting to flats isn't any cheaper and the cashier doesn't say "this is bigger than a postbox the recipient may not receive it because..." when posting.
The whole lift/not knowing if the right person is going to the foyer is difficult to solve if the postman strictly wants to deliver the the delivery point only then they should aware of giving parcels to the right people and allowing a minute or two for a lift. The only other safe option looks like delivering to the door which it seems postmen don't want to do. (I can understand postmen not wanting to do this as some apartment buildings are like rabbit warrens). Otherwise there seems to be no other ways of delivering safely I don't think leaving cards and expecting someone to pay for their items to be sent to a PO should seriously be considered as delivering.
There is another 6 apartment buildings on my street alone is the RM really going to turn around and say to all these people they can't receive parcels because they only have a postbox and it takes too much time for the postman to ring the intercom and wait for a lift? Or got to the door? I'm not trying to start an argument but I do hope you can see it is unfair.

The building I live on is on a corner I can see the postman driving away but not arriving. Some weeks I might get parcels everyday, other weeks it might only be once. Deliveries come between 11-1 it is a long time to wait in the foyer to see if I might get a parcel that day.
I also order envelopes and jewellery boxes in large quantities (500 per order) they come in big packages there wouldn't be room for individual parcel boxes of that size. They would also need individual keys, for each building the postman would have to have a set of keys to each parcel box, unlock, put the parcel in and relock each individual box this alone would probably take the same time as waiting for a lift. He would still need to wait for someone to come down and sign for some parcels too. During the investigation a communal box was suggested but ruled out by both the police and RM as unsafe.
When I spoke to customer services they said I wouldn't be allowed to just seal up my own box, the whole set of postboxes would have to go. The management company of the building said they can't allow us to have postboxes in our doors (something to do with new safety regulations) and they can't put postboxes on each floor on the corridor as it is classed as a fire hazard.

a minute or two
lets be honest,its more than that
'll say again
why not get an entry sytem fitted that allows you to give them access from your flat?
its your problem,not RMs or the posties
provide a practical solution or accept you will have problems
RM is a one size fits most service

The RM do know the door code, a lot of postmen let themselves in to the building. No-one including the management has a problem with them doing so.

When they ring the intercom we do also have the option of opening the front door with our keypads. Access isn't the issue, the issue is them either dumping the parcels or not waiting.
It is actually 3 minutes at the most if the lifts are in use. The lift is ten steps away from my front door, the lifts open in the foyer next to the postboxes. When the police were involved the officer did pretended to be the postman and went outside rang the intercom and I went down to the foyer, etc. It was also his opinion that the postman was being unreasonable by not waiting that long.