Been given notice after 11weeks

[tommyrep]

You are absolutely obsessed with start/finish times tommy to the point where you completely ignore the real reason we're losing hours in delivery offices and that's the reduction in indoor workload due to continuing automation.

All of the hours that have come out of my office in the last 20 years have been based on these facts, no hours have been removed on the basis of posties finishing early, how do you explain that?

I know this forum is open to all people with any interest in Royal Mail to pass comment on many varied topics.
Be that, posties, processing, Anguard, parcel force, Romec, retirees, all others employed as contractors, the general public etc,, and that will also include RM management staff. The site is not a CWU only monopoly.
I admit to being an ex CWU Union Rep and speak up often and openly on this site mainly about the B&H and intimidation experienced by those posties who deserve better representation and protection( check my posting history) - drawing upon my own personal experience off having been subjected to a lot of intimidation by RM management at a very senior level ALL based and caused by the very thing you are so keen to support. The early starters only want to finish earlier I get that, you would never believe that managers could utilise that to their own bonus driven advantage causing a lot of grief along the way, INTIMIDATION! That’s why I am obsessed, you are right about that part.
Does that explain to you WHY I am obsessed about the impact of people starting early! If there was NO impact on others I would not care or give a toss. It’s the managers who use it as a lever to abuse the other staff, and that’s an undeniable fact.
The quieter, weaker sorts are left to fend for themselves and ignored by colleagues who could help them with a little more support and advice. The original poster may now be aware of this!! In delivery offices most people are out for themselves.
In the meantime DO and area managers continue to act with impunity, B&H along with intimidation continues unabated.
I also attended many Union meetings and educational courses during that time and learned a lot about Royal Mail HR politics, I never encountered anyone with views similar to yours, quite the opposite in all honesty. Your portrayal of how you run your units Union business like a well oiled machine, keeping EVERYONE happy with people starting and finishing as they like is in vast contrast to the nation wide experience that others know or recognise.
Your postings bear no semblance of Trade Union policy ethic or moral fabric, in the value of fairness or promotion and protecting of T&Cs while advocating the general welfare of Union members. Your true character shines through the mist!
Well done, to portray any social conscience or pretence towards all colleagues under the Rep banner is a tad mischievous!!
So Woody, I respectfully disagree with your view that early starters have not been responsible for the loss of any office hours, and the other aspect of their actions Is much more profound, it sets a benchmark that others are expected to follow and those consequences cost RM “money”! The managers real bogie man!!! When some sit at home happily finished for the day, others can still be out on delivery- even cutting off- where OT is incurred by others prepared to take up that work.
And that is where the real problems start, as a Rep I would be very surprised if you have never been involved in such bitter matters on behalf of your fellow members! If you have, how do you explain your open support for the perpetrators?

[clashcityrocker]

DOs should have a part time union rep, representing part time interests. I suspect most union reps are full time and only give a monkeys about full timer interests and getting home early.

I don't think they don't give a monkey's, they simply cannot empathise with a situation they haven't been in.
I do think all union reps should be reserves and not duty holders.

There will (shortly) come a time when most offices have a majority part time staff and then they will be able to vote in "their" candidate.

[tommyrep]

DOs should have a part time union rep, representing part time interests. I suspect most union reps are full time and only give a monkeys about full timer interests and getting home early.

I don't think they don't give a monkey's, they simply cannot empathise with a situation they haven't been in.
I do think all union reps should be reserves and not duty holders.

There will (shortly) come a time when most offices have a majority part time staff and then they will be able to vote in "their" candidate.

Fair comment, until the have walked in their shoes !
The Rep’s may not be aware of the PTs plight but many FTs certainly don’t.
Generally speaking part timers have always been regarded as the poor cousins in delivery.
They get a rough deal at times, with very little backing in a DO, and boy don’t the managers know that.
And yes, mainly part time posties in delivery are inevitable in the future, I think, with FT work mainly in MCs.

[Woody Guthrie]

I admit to being an ex CWU Union Rep and speak up often and openly on this site mainly about the B&H and intimidation

And yet you openly and frequently abuse members on this forum who have a different opinion to you and call other members of staff idiots because they don't work in the manner you demand of them.

Nobody "does the job properly" entirely whether it's cutting corners indoors, outdoors or simply not working to an acceptable standard. Some do it more than others, some take the piss completely. I don't defend them but I do understand that there are many different reasons why they do what they do, that the position we're in with regards to resourcing has very little to do with their behaviour and I certainly don't use them as an excuse for poor representation.

People who start early are not stupid idiots, casting them as the enemy and blaming all our woes on them is both divisive and pathetic.

This forum is sadly now full of hypocritical keyboard warriors playing the puritanical tough guy while obviously compensating for real life inadequacies.

It's a shite state of affairs.

[tommyrep]

I admit to being an ex CWU Union Rep and speak up often and openly on this site mainly about the B&H and intimidation

And yet you openly and frequently abuse members on this forum who have a different opinion to you and call other members of staff idiots because they don't work in the manner you demand of them.

Nobody "does the job properly" entirely whether it's cutting corners indoors, outdoors or simply not working to an acceptable standard. Some do it more than others, some take the piss completely. I don't defend them but I do understand that there are many different reasons why they do what they do, that the position we're in with regards to resourcing has very little to do with their behaviour and I certainly don't use them as an excuse for poor representation.

People who start early are not stupid idiots, casting them as the enemy and blaming all our woes on them is both divisive and pathetic.

This forum is sadly now full of hypocritical keyboard warriors playing the puritanical tough guy while obviously compensating for real life inadequacies.

It's a shite state of affairs.

I have never abused members! Questioned their integrity? most certainly.
I only question the part they play in contributing to the bullying culture that prevails and selfishness is the only explanation.
There is a division within the workplace, you will be aware of that and that mainly benefits a bullying intimidating manager. It is the oldest battle criteria ever designed and has been utilised throughout history. It will never change, especially in these modern times where people are only interested themselves,however bad the consequences are for others.
I realise that and have said is not their main intention, to facilitate grief on other innocents, their main and only focus is on finishing early- or before official duty finish time. Not a huge crime, but it creates an unsavoury platform for others to manipulate and relentlessly abuse other people often on a daily basis, known as "intimidation" you obviously don't experience that or even notice it happening to people you are supposed to be representing - protect even.
As for your opinion on keyboard warriors on forum, a puritanical tough guy, with real life inadequacy ! Lol!
Some people have principals and can stand their own ground on them, others descend to petty assumptions to divert attention from their limited debating skills. You do not enjoy constructive criticism, rather cow tow to others.
I do not demand people do anything, my hope is that as sensible adults they could see the results of their own actions.
My opinions on others actions are exactly that! What I will say, without any fear of any recrimination from people like you.
In my time as a Rep I ALWAYS took a defensive stance on the bullied,down trodden members, mainly younger part timers and new starts who were continually abused at the hands of people you inadvertently support. They are truly the forgotten people by our Union. The old soldiers within the DO had no interest in their treatment and were quite happy with their lot, mmm, strangely many were early starters.!
I am a man with principals, and I will take no lessons on integrity from a man who openly supports the actions of a few selfish people to the detriment of others. I really did try to represent all and not the few, you would appear to have taken the easy way out of that. Free for all's always result in chaos. And that is a shite state of affairs, to use your analysis.

[SpacePhoenix]

Nobody "does the job properly" entirely whether it's cutting corners indoors, outdoors or simply not working to an acceptable standard. Some do it more than others, some take the piss completely. I don't defend them but I do understand that there are many different reasons why they do what they do, that the position we're in with regards to resourcing has very little to do with their behaviour and I certainly don't use them as an excuse for poor representation.

It's the ones that come in early for free, rush around their walk, cut corners, etc that are the cause of a good few of the resourcing problems in DOs. Whilst a DOM has got people coming for free, why would they bother adding hours into the office either as duty or OT/SA? If higher up see walks being finished before their official finish times then they're going to look at how many hours that they can take out of an office.

If more people "did the job properly", took all their breaks, used the allocated equipment (trolleys), etc then the walks would take longer and DOMs (and higher up) would be forced to either put hours into an office (potentially giving some PT a chance to get made up to FT) or to put in SA or more overtime

[tommyrep]

Nobody "does the job properly" entirely whether it's cutting corners indoors, outdoors or simply not working to an acceptable standard. Some do it more than others, some take the piss completely. I don't defend them but I do understand that there are many different reasons why they do what they do, that the position we're in with regards to resourcing has very little to do with their behaviour and I certainly don't use them as an excuse for poor representation.

It's the ones that come in early for free, rush around their walk, cut corners, etc that are the cause of a good few of the resourcing problems in DOs. Whilst a DOM has got people coming for free, why would they bother adding hours into the office either as duty or OT/SA? If higher up see walks being finished before their official finish times then they're going to look at how many hours that they can take out of an office.

If more people "did the job properly", took all their breaks, used the allocated equipment (trolleys), etc then the walks would take longer and DOMs (and higher up) would be forced to either put hours into an office (potentially giving some PT a chance to get made up to FT) or to put in SA or more overtime

As a supposed Rep, Woody seems to have capitulated on the very first lesson of instruction given to all Reps.
We were always encouraged to drive the “do to the job properly” message home to members and constantly repeat it!
I doubt he was ever attended any CWU Rep courses to be honest, he comes across as being far too flippant and defensive towards an obvious non starter, trying to imply that there is no harm in members NOT doing the job properly, its crazy.
As a Rep has he never been called upon to represent any CWU member at a disciplinary meeting ? where members have been accused of NOT doing the job properly, ( when it suits RMs agenda), a very strange situation for any Rep to be in.
It was all the rage many years ago with things like the poster! " do not take your cars out on delivery".
Take all your paid breaks. Do not start work before official time. All simple requests from a Union with a vested interest in job preservation. Debating the issue with Woody is like, :arrrghh. Very similar to having meetings with my old DOM then a good few that followed him. Forum rules prevent me from accusing him of any falsehoods.
Mmm, but maybe Woody has confused CWU training with the new or potential managers training provided by RM?
I do not recall new Reps ever being told that one " nobody does the job properly anyway, so just allow RM to do as they like, they really do have the CWU members interests at heart, seriously NOT kidding" :)

[clashcityrocker]

If more people "did the job properly", took all their breaks, used the allocated equipment (trolleys), etc then the walks would take longer and DOMs (and higher up) would be forced to either put hours into an office (potentially giving some PT a chance to get made up to FT) or to put in SA or more overtime

The walks are designed to be done properly.
"Doing the job properly" wouldn't make the walks take longer than planned.

[SpacePhoenix]

If more people "did the job properly", took all their breaks, used the allocated equipment (trolleys), etc then the walks would take longer and DOMs (and higher up) would be forced to either put hours into an office (potentially giving some PT a chance to get made up to FT) or to put in SA or more overtime

The walks are designed to be done properly.
"Doing the job properly" wouldn't make the walks take longer than planned.

What about walks that have had bits added to them where people have been getting around them too quick?

[tommyrep]

If more people "did the job properly", took all their breaks, used the allocated equipment (trolleys), etc then the walks would take longer and DOMs (and higher up) would be forced to either put hours into an office (potentially giving some PT a chance to get made up to FT) or to put in SA or more overtime

The walks are designed to be done properly.
"Doing the job properly" wouldn't make the walks take longer than planned.

What about walks that have had bits added to them where people have been getting around them too quick?

Great answer there, :)
Only got some of the walks right at the design stage then?

[clashcityrocker]

What about walks that have had bits added to them where people have been getting around them too quick?

I have seen walks extended when parcel contracts have been lost.
I have seen it when increased indoor automation has been brought in (buddy flat trays for example)

I have never seen a walk have extra added to it because the people have been getting round too quick.
Perhaps your experience in a Mail Centre is vastly different.

[norris9]

From my Part Time Newbie experience so far....

1. No ruddy Postie I have been out with takes their 30 minute break! But I see why - they wouldn't complete in time! Therefore the walks are too long.

2. Sometimes they take lapsing, but if they took their 30 minute break they'd probably never have to ever agree to do lapsing as they wouldn't get done on time. Maybe the only exception would be a Saturday as they seem to be the easiest days by far. Seems Posties are more interested in doing lapsing than taking a break!, but they moan about lapsing.

3. Walks are NOT equal. One walk I was on for a short while on average was 20mins too long, without any lapsing and without any breaks. It at least needs 1 loop taken off it.

[Woody Guthrie]

What about walks that have had bits added to them where people have been getting around them too quick?

If a duty has been planned and accepted at the revision stage surely no decent rep would stand for a it being extended purely on the basis of someone cutting corners? It's not really a hard argument to win.

Rather than blaming others some of these reps need to take a look at themselves.
It's never happened in my office. It never will. We make our management manage by facts, if they want to extend a duty it has to be backed up using the agreed tools and planning values.If someone skips their break management can't take that out of the planning values, if they start early they can't use that in the planning values. It's not rocket science.

[DrSatan]

What about walks that have had bits added to them where people have been getting around them too quick?

I have seen walks extended when parcel contracts have been lost.
I have seen it when increased indoor automation has been brought in (buddy flat trays for example)

I have never seen a walk have extra added to it because the people have been getting round too quick.
Perhaps your experience in a Mail Centre is vastly different.

Some duties in our DO have had extra added to them in terms of more lapsing because certain people rush around to get back early in the hope they will be allowed to go home early.

However 'lapsing' in our office is expected and if we don't have enough time to complete then it's our own duties we are to leave and not the lapsing.

[Woody Guthrie]

Some duties in our DO have had extra added to them in terms of more lapsing because certain people rush around to get back early in the hope they will be allowed to go home early.

However 'lapsing' in our office is expected and if we don't have enough time to complete then it's our own duties we are to leave and not the lapsing.

Do you have a rep?