Theft by Royal Mail

[harryg]

We are a large Royal Mail user. In the past few weeks, we have inadvertently shipped a few parcels containing perfume by Royal Mail (International).
These parcels have been stopped by Royal Mail, and returned to us EMPTY , with the contents (worth several hundred pounds) "destroyed by Royal Mail".
Call me a cynic if you like, but I refuse to believe that these perfumes and aftershaves, (new, in sealed boxes) have been destroyed by anyone at Royal Mail.
Basically, as far as we are concerned, it is nothing more than theft.
We are now looking to switch our mail carrier elsewhere. I believe several other large organisations are following suit.

[POSTMAN]

Moved to customer forum.


From memory I know certain things changed a while back,i'm guessing you are aware of the below...
http://www.postoffice.co.uk/prohibited-items" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[harryg]

Thanks...but the items were sent in error, and I cannot imagine (in my cynical view) hundreds of pounds worth of perfume having been destroyed by Royal Mail!

[POSTMAN]

So there is no theft then....and it was your fault.

Maybe one of the guys on here will know about the destroying of the stuff,not sure why that would happen,or how that works.
Personally with your kind of stuff I would of thought it would be easier to send the stuff back with a charge,save opening it up,tipping it out ect....then send it back.

[POSTMAN]

Also news today...
http://www.ecommercebytes.com/cab/abn/y13/m02/i08/s02" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[harryg]

We have just had another few empty parcels (contents "confiscated) which contained cosmetic face creams. We are unable to find any of the ingredients on the prohibited list given to us by Royal Mail!

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Harryg just need to make sure you are aware that this site is not an official site and you are probably best addressing your concerns elsewhere. We can give advice and offer suggestions but they would be informal and unofficial.

We do try to make customers aware of this by having this statement on every page:

We have no affiliation with either Royal Mail or the Communications Workers Union (CWU), except that most of our members work for Royal Mail and/or are members of the CWU.

However, you are of course more than welcome to post on here, just keep in mind the provisos I have posted above.


Thanks and welcome.

[Minischoles]

Dangerous Goods Act.

Look it up, read it very carefully.

Certain items are now classed as dangerous goods thanks to the Civil Aviation Authority, Maritime Agency and Department of Transport, and as such Royal Mail can no longer transport them in the post if you're a social customer. As you're a business customer, you can send some items inland if you follow the labelling guidelines - bearing in mind if you don't you can be prosecuted. That's Inland however.

Internationally, there is a complete set of dangerous goods published, many of which were allowed to go in small amounts before, but with the dangerous goods act coming into force on the 14th January, these prohibitions are enforced stringently now and any attempt to post dangerous goods will result in the item being destroyed and your parcel returned to sender.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I've heard about this new rule concerning the sending of perfumes recently.
Apparently it's coming into force in July that perfumes can't even be send by RM UK to UK?
What is all this really about?
After all these years, why do this now, all of a sudden?
Going to be some big changes with online retailers and the services they use to get their goods out.

http://www.royalmail.com/termschanges" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Royal Mail has published a new set of rules that will ensure specified low risk items can be transported safely through the UK postal network. They come into effect for contract and account customers on 14 January 2013. For consumers and non-account customers, they will come into effect on 15 July 2013.

The reason: (same page)

The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA), Department for Transport (DfT) and the Maritime and Coastguard Agency (MCA) have agreed new rules with Royal Mail Group for sending small quantities of specific consumer items through the post to UK addresses.

The updated set of rules will limit the risk posed by those items when sent in the post. The change means that customers will be able to post toiletry and medicinal aerosols, nail varnishes, perfumes and aftershaves, which are currently prohibited, to UK addresses. They also mean customers can post alcohol up to 70 per cent ABV and electronic items sent with or containing lithium batteries within the UK. Customers posting such items will need to comply with volume/battery capacity, quantity, packaging and labelling requirements.

‘Dangerous goods’ are articles or substances which are capable of posing a risk to health, safety, property or the environment. Existing regulations prohibit sending nearly all dangerous goods in the mail. Prohibited items (such as explosives and corrosive liquids) must never be sent in the post.

Royal Mail is a postal operator and does not carry large single consignments or cargo through its network. The new rules are only in relation to the small quantities that Royal Mail handles on behalf of customers. The new rules mean an additional cost for Royal Mail itself as it puts in a range of measures to control low risk items entering the postal network.

[TFL001]

The dangerous good Blar Blar .. one plane goes on fire goverment stop transporting goods ... Typical health and safety.... LET US GET ON WITH IT !!!!

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Yes - lets bring back square windows

[befezdef]

It seems that what harryg is getting at is that there appears to be no details of the MMO for the 'destruction' of confiscated prohibited goods.
POSTMAN and TruBlueTerrier you seem to be quite irritated at the idea that there may be people in the postal service walking away with our goods. If there are people out there with genuine concerns about the disposal of their property, surely a site such as this is as good a place as any to find out who else has had a similar experience. This is a customer service issue and Royal Mail should listen to the concerns of it's customers.
All he is getting at is that there may be a black market in confiscated goods, and the Royal Mail should be completely transparent in their handling of said goods.
Moderate me, or anyone else off the site if you like, but I for one share harrg's cynicism in the absence of any factual evidence.

[UnhappyGremlin]

If you ask at any Post Office, they will tell you that you cannot sent send perfume as it contains alcohol, which is flammable. Goods like that can no longer be sent internationally. At least, that is what they told me.

Having said that, I would point out that, if a customer has done this, it would be more reasonable to return the items to them with a letter explaining why they cannot be sent. Assuming there is a return address. Though, Royal Mail may say that they cannot do this as the product is unsafe to transport/process through the system. But as most things are now delivered via roads these days, it would be a nonsensical argument to me. But there are probably some T&C's somewhere that state that any item discovered in contravention of the new rules will be destroyed. But again, it would still be my opinion that the company should write to them explaining why, and explaining the restrictions.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

It seems that what harryg is getting at is that there appears to be no details of the MMO for the 'destruction' of confiscated prohibited goods.
POSTMAN and TruBlueTerrier you seem to be quite irritated at the idea that there may be people in the postal service walking away with our goods.

Is that because of my post

Yes - lets bring back square windows

Thats a nod towards the BOAC aircraft of the 1950s that had square windows. It was the known cause of 1 crash and probable cause of possibly 2 others. It was a response to the post immediately above it which seemed to posit albeit in jest that all H&S rulings were designed to make their work more difficult.

If there are people out there with genuine concerns about the disposal of their property, surely a site such as this is as good a place as any to find out who else has had a similar experience.

I agree and so does Postman thats why we provide a section on this site - unofficial though it is.

This is a customer service issue and Royal Mail should listen to the concerns of it's customers.

Again I agree - however this is an unofficial site so you won't get, and shouldn't expect, any official reply on here. In fact we are blocked from most Royal Mail computers.

Another consequence of this being an unofficial site is that sometimes a bit of comedy or if you want to call it such, unprofessional-ism, will creep in. Nothing is meant by it but as most of us are posties either working in Mail Centre or on the streets of the UK delivering mail you wont get answers full of jargon or arse covering - you'll get straight opinions and advice - warts and all.

All he is getting at is that there may be a black market in confiscated goods, and the Royal Mail should be completely transparent in their handling of said goods.

That might be his suspicion, there is nothing I can do to alleviate that - all we are trying to do is point him in the right direction so he can get answers, and in one of the links we posted is this little gem which hopefully he would have taken notice of.

Further, if you send dangerous goods and do not comply with the applicable terms and conditions and legal requirements then we may deal with the goods as we see fit including destroying or disposing of the relevant goods or as otherwise specified in the terms and conditions.

Moderate me, or anyone else off the site if you like, but I for one share harrg's cynicism in the absence of any factual evidence.

We do not moderate people off the site just because they disagree with us or have different views. All we ask is that everyone respects other peoples right to have a different opinion from their own, and that members do not resort to personal abuse. Those that do post abuse are warned and if they continue then we will ban them in the worst cases. The only people we do Moderate straight away is spammers.

[befezdef]

I have sent an enquiry to the Royal Mail, ( http://www.royalmail.com/personal/help- ... t-in-touch" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) asking for clarification on the disposal of confiscated prohibited items such as aftershave and perfume.

I will let you all know what, if any, response I get.

This was the response I recieved:-
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________
I would like to explain that the method of disposal for prohibited goods sent in the post is determined by the nature of the item concerned. In some instances, items may be sent to recycle, handed to the relevant authorities including the Police and Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs (HMRC), or sold at auction, with any monies raised used to fund the National Returns Centre’s work.
I hope the above information concludes the matter for you and if you do need to contact us again, please do not hesitate to do so.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________

So, it would seem that these goods are sold at auction. Nice.