Grievance Fiasco

[Mezza]

First a small explanation......
As part of our office revision we were offered a new start time, which was rejected by the office under a threat of IA. Management came back with an improved offer of 6.30 starts Mon-Fri and 6.00 on sats.
This was officially voted on and accepted and signed off by our Area Rep and DOM.
5 weeks or so later our DOM has changed the start times for our three indoor staff (of which i am one).

None of us want the changes and were happy with the agreed times.

We filed a Disagreement which was rejected.........we never really heard the reasons.

We then filed three seperate Grievances against the proposed changes and went straight to level 2 as this obviously would have involved our DOM at level 1.

Had our interviews, had to heavily amend the interview notes as the idiot taking notes was either deaf or ignored some serious things....such as our concerns over breaches of the 2010 and Beyond agreement.
Result of our Grievance was that as there is an existing agreement in place concerning our start times we therefore cannot change them!!

So our argument that the agreement was for 6.30 and 6.00 starts and that's what we want to stick to has been rejected because that agreement cannot be broken ?

Honestly, you couldn't make it up.

So now we have to go to Level 3.

Bear in mind if we lose this fight then the 2010 and beyond agreement will mean nothing in our office and neither will the locally agreed start times for the rest of the office.

For anyone interested my new start times are now 6.30 Monday - 14.03, Tues 7.15 - 14.48. Weds, Thurs & Fri 6.45-14.33, Saturday 6.00-13.33.
So most weeks involves setting my alarm clock for 4 different times. I look after the RLE - all SD's will be delayed by up to 45 mins on a Tues meaning they won't be ready for delivery till about 8.45 - good luck with those 9am's.

[dvbuk55]

For anyone interested my new start times are now 6.30 Monday - 14.03, Tues 7.15 - 14.48. Weds, Thurs & Fri 6.45-14.33, Saturday 6.00-13.33.
So most weeks involves setting my alarm clock for 4 different times. I look after the RLE - all SD's will be delayed by up to 45 mins on a Tues meaning they won't be ready for delivery till about 8.45 - good luck with those 9am's.

How big is your office Mezza? I too look after the specials and Tuesday is horrendous for SDs, this Tuesday I had about 360 and I start at 5.45 there's no way I could start at that time and get them ready. It was about 8.10 when I allocated the last one - the bulks are supposed to leave at 8.00 so they are first to be done after the 9.0 o'clockers which need to be ready for 7.15 because of the distance they potentially have to cover. Because Monday there are very few received and Saturday holdovers it would make much more sense to start at a later time and a much earlier time on other days. I think your Rep needs to go back to the table tbh.

[Mezza]

Hi mate, our office isn't the biggest but on an average Tuesday we get around 250-300 Sd's, slightly higher at the moment. We also process all the Tracked as well, which Tuesdays are quite light, usually around 50.

Whoever thinks these things up is obviously paid alot more than me for these fantastic ideas that are really pointless.

Finished filing my Grievance level 3 today, ready to send tomorrow.

If the powers that be can just see that i want to work to the hours set out in our local agreement, i'm not trying to change those hours, my DOM is !

Our callers office opens at 7am usually, it will be 6.30 next week.
The girl in there is due to start at 6.30 and 6.50 during the week ! Who books all the stuff in, sorts the British Gas, pulls out the redeliveries etc etc etc?

Beyond belief to anyone outside of RM. To anyone inside RM a normal everyday occurence.

[dvbuk55]

Hi mate, our office isn't the biggest but on an average Tuesday we get around 250-300 Sd's, slightly higher at the moment. We also process all the Tracked as well, which Tuesdays are quite light, usually around 50.

Whoever thinks these things up is obviously paid alot more than me for these fantastic ideas that are really pointless.

Finished filing my Grievance level 3 today, ready to send tomorrow.

If the powers that be can just see that i want to work to the hours set out in our local agreement, i'm not trying to change those hours, my DOM is !

Our callers office opens at 7am usually, it will be 6.30 next week.
The girl in there is due to start at 6.30 and 6.50 during the week ! Who books all the stuff in, sorts the British Gas, pulls out the redeliveries etc etc etc?

Beyond belief to anyone outside of RM. To anyone inside RM a normal everyday occurence.

How many of you work in the locker? I used to do both SD and tracked but there's no way a single person could do that now. There's a guy from IPS does them,
today we had over 800, Tuesday over a 1000. We only book tracked back, not ordinary parcels we don't have the time or the staff.

[NWpostie]

Just fail and let them pick up the pieces. sure you will get some flak at the end of the day if its not achievable, its NOT achievable. I ceased caring and just do my hours.

[Mezza]

I totally agree. Gave up trying to get SD's out as priority with everything else i look after these days.

It's the whole issue that if they can change my hours from those agreed locally then everyone in the office could at some point suffer the same fate.

[dvbuk55]

I totally agree. Gave up trying to get SD's out as priority with everything else i look after these days.

It's the whole issue that if they can change my hours from those agreed locally then everyone in the office could at some point suffer the same fate.

Of course they could. I don't know if you've had the review of your revision yet but our hours have changed a number of times since the original review 3 years ago. Originally I didn't work Saturday but I now don't work Monday but the hours have remained the same simply because it wouldn't be practical to start later. Like the PDAs for example? we have 91 and they take a lot of work these days.

[Mezza]

Been notified that our level 3 hearing should be sometime next week.

Considering we had 5 days to get the level 3 paperwork in (which involved 3 days off and a Sunday), or else it would be taken as our acceptance of the level 2 outcome - they haven't done badly have they - only 34 days to get this far!

[oldpostie]

Good luck
Let them pay ££ the compensation for failed 9am
Sd items..
As for the grievance I was 11 months 3 weeks
From 1 to 3 and the outcome was a
Load of twaddle and lies

[Mezza]

Well our level 3 grievance still goes on.
We found a contact number for the person in charge of the department that all level 3 grievances go through.
She could find no record of our case and so is now chasing up our DSM to find out why those papers have not been received and why there has been such a delay in the process.

I don't want to sound paranoid, but i suspect that a few phone calls have been made about our contact with the above department and has filtered down to our DOM.

Low and behold today he has told us that as well as our existing workload we have to split a little delivery between two of us (bare in mind we are indoor staff - RLE and DOM support).
The delivery was formerly part of a High St duty and the part we are being given takes about 90mins on a good day.

The reason we have been told is that there are duty coverage issues and this delivery was left out at the revision by mistake.

So we are no arguing the fact that we still have delivery staff making at least an hour a day (on heavy days) on us indoor staff - who all work to our time. Yet you want to add even more work to our day?
None of us a in the position of sitting around with nothing to do, there is no time in our duties to add delivery or anything else for that matter.

As far as the duty builder goes....well we were told that there is no provision in the duty builder for indoor duties - therefore we do not have a duty structure !

It just seems as though management are getting a little stressed with the greivance process we have started and are now trying to put pressure on us.

Whilst we're never going to agree to this delivery addition to our duties, we realise there is little we can do about it. So we will simply get on with it and when other things don't get done or we bring mail back from delivery, then perhaps they will take notice - but i won't hold my breath.

[dvbuk55]

Well our level 3 grievance still goes on.
We found a contact number for the person in charge of the department that all level 3 grievances go through.
She could find no record of our case and so is now chasing up our DSM to find out why those papers have not been received and why there has been such a delay in the process.

I don't want to sound paranoid, but i suspect that a few phone calls have been made about our contact with the above department and has filtered down to our DOM.

Low and behold today he has told us that as well as our existing workload we have to split a little delivery between two of us (bare in mind we are indoor staff - RLE and DOM support).
The delivery was formerly part of a High St duty and the part we are being given takes about 90mins on a good day.

The reason we have been told is that there are duty coverage issues and this delivery was left out at the revision by mistake.

So we are no arguing the fact that we still have delivery staff making at least an hour a day (on heavy days) on us indoor staff - who all work to our time. Yet you want to add even more work to our day?
None of us a in the position of sitting around with nothing to do, there is no time in our duties to add delivery or anything else for that matter.

As far as the duty builder goes....well we were told that there is no provision in the duty builder for indoor duties - therefore we do not have a duty structure !

It just seems as though management are getting a little stressed with the greivance process we have started and are now trying to put pressure on us.

Whilst we're never going to agree to this delivery addition to our duties, we realise there is little we can do about it. So we will simply get on with it and when other things don't get done or we bring mail back from delivery, then perhaps they will take notice - but i won't hold my breath.

Are you both full time? When you say you work to your time, do you mean work or just stay at your duty location to the end of your shift. Believe me I completely understand about the outdoor staff finishing early and not having a duty structure for your indoor work. Have you prepared a work to time ratio plan to reinforce your case?

[Mezza]

With regard working to our time - what i mean is we are at work from our start time through to our finish time. We never finish early - well on the rare occassion of a quiet day when everyone is back early i can sometimes make 10-15 minutes (being in the RLE).

We are full time and no we haven't done a work to time ratio - but as i have to complete a sheet of logging the drivers keys in and out the information is freely available.

We have never had an issue with working our hours and delivery staff finishing early, but adding more work to the indoor duties when delivery staff are going home early is taking the piss.

[dvbuk55]

With regard working to our time - what i mean is we are at work from our start time through to our finish time. We never finish early - well on the rare occassion of a quiet day when everyone is back early i can sometimes make 10-15 minutes (being in the RLE).

We are full time and no we haven't done a work to time ratio - but as i have to complete a sheet of logging the drivers keys in and out the information is freely available.

We have never had an issue with working our hours and delivery staff finishing early, but adding more work to the indoor duties when delivery staff are going home early is taking the piss.

Well there's the problem! Being at work and working isn't the same. The key log is completed by the driver signing out on leaving and signing back on return. You must be careful that you don't over guild the lily. I work in the locker, I receive in, put out to walks and allocate by myself up to 300 specials a day all completed by 0800 from a start time of 0545.Prepare pre 0900 specials get a vehicle and PDA prepared for delivery before 0900 together with what I consider may be holdovers that won't meet the 1300 timescale. At 0800 I prepare the replacement PDAs, we have 91, hand out vans to individuals whose vehicle is being replaced for whatever reason, make out custom charges received from Revenue Protection both ordinary and Specials and open the locker to the monkeys at 0845. I ensure the drivers/HCT guys sign for the vehicle/trolley, PDA, Specials, fuel card etc. This takes from 0845 to sometimes 1045 at worst and 10 to 1015 at best. I also between handing out the stuff help in the callers office. In addition I keep the paperwork up to date for signing in logs, fuel cards, PDAs etc.
I'm part time and carry out that work in 5.5 hours a day up to 11.15. I don't consider it be excessive but it's definitely a full day within the time. Now if I was to be working a full day and had 2.5 hours left in the shift...........well you see where I'm coming from.

[Mezza]

I start at 06.30, first 30,mins is usually spent confirming the stuff that came back after i went home the day before - stragglers, overtime etc.
Then its booking everything in and sorting them, specials and tracked usually a combined total of about 5-600 items, this usually takes me to about 07.30-07.45. Then of course it all has to be allocated. Overtime walks sorted out etc.
Then as you, i allocate vehicles, 9am's etc.
Drivers will start getting their stuff as soon as i've allocated it, then the walks(or shared vans as is now) - that often takes me to around 10am.
I then take my 40 mins meal relief, before taking over the callers while she has her meal break.
Then i have to tray up all the redirections - usually takes me to around 12pm.
Tie up the Specials for collection.
A few of the drivers will have got back by now and gone home - their stuff needs booking in and then the walks will begin drifting back. Once the runners are back the more steady ones will begin returning in an almost constant flow till around 2pm, then it slows down a little.

In amongst all that i have to prepare the paperwork for tomorrow - walk sheets, signing cards, vehicle signing sheets.Ring IT to replace faulty PDA's, confirm and return any signed for kill offs and tracked items, issue and record fuel cards. bag up damaged items.

I finish at 14.03 Mon & tues, 14.33 weds, Thurs & Friday and 13.33 on Saturdays.

I fully appreciate what your saying, but i really don't have time to go out and deliver for around an hour. The sorting and bagging up of the duty hasn't even been discussed at the moment.
On the odd occassion i haven't been around to bag up the specials for collection, management have forgotten it.
If i'm not about when someone gets back with stuff to book in, it's piled up on my window and i then have to go through it working out whose it was.
We have 3 managers and a DOM, the managers take it in turns to have a nice early day once a week, usually on the way home by about 11:30 - we don't get that.

Like i said before, none of us have ever had an issue in working to our finish time, but if delivery staff are allowed to go home as soon as they finish and anything up to 2 hours a day early ( on saturdays some of the firms drivers are on the way home at 09.30), then please justify why i should be given more to do?

[General Mannerheim]

With regard working to our time - what i mean is we are at work from our start time through to our finish time. We never finish early - well on the rare occassion of a quiet day when everyone is back early i can sometimes make 10-15 minutes (being in the RLE).

We are full time and no we haven't done a work to time ratio - but as i have to complete a sheet of logging the drivers keys in and out the information is freely available.

We have never had an issue with working our hours and delivery staff finishing early, but adding more work to the indoor duties when delivery staff are going home early is taking the piss.

Well there's the problem! Being at work and working isn't the same. The key log is completed by the driver signing out on leaving and signing back on return. You must be careful that you don't over guild the lily. I work in the locker, I receive in, put out to walks and allocate by myself up to 300 specials a day all completed by 0800 from a start time of 0545.Prepare pre 0900 specials get a vehicle and PDA prepared for delivery before 0900 together with what I consider may be holdovers that won't meet the 1300 timescale. At 0800 I prepare the replacement PDAs, we have 91, hand out vans to individuals whose vehicle is being replaced for whatever reason, make out custom charges received from Revenue Protection both ordinary and Specials and open the locker to the monkeys at 0845. I ensure the drivers/HCT guys sign for the vehicle/trolley, PDA, Specials, fuel card etc. This takes from 0845 to sometimes 1045 at worst and 10 to 1015 at best. I also between handing out the stuff help in the callers office. In addition I keep the paperwork up to date for signing in logs, fuel cards, PDAs etc.
I'm part time and carry out that work in 5.5 hours a day up to 11.15. I don't consider it be excessive but it's definitely a full day within the time. Now if I was to be working a full day and had 2.5 hours left in the shift...........well you see where I'm coming from.

Wow! How do you manage to read the papers and drink tea?