Move to Romford MC under MTSF2 rule

[afrentiger]

Out of 82 full time jobs in East London Mail Centre early shift, only 4 have been allocated a duty to our first choice mail centre, Romford. Both union and management have gone extremely quiet on what to do with the rest of the staff, though managers knew their new duties in September.

Under the MTSF2 agreement, the early shift staff currently still working at East London Mail Centre will have no choice but take VR when the MC eventually closes down.

[afrentiger]

It has been reported that those already transferred to Romford MC from East London MC has a mini duty resign. One of the lucky 4 from the early shift has signed a duty in the late shift. It is totally unfair to the staffs that are still waiting to move to Romford MC under MTSF2 rule.

Could anyone here clarify that whether an MTSF2 rule has been broken by allowing people to move shift without the completion of MC closure?

[POSTMAN]

Topic split,this would of got lost in that thread.

[Martin Walsh]

Remember out of the 82 processing jobs available at Romford the vast majority of those duties are on the inward. The East London Inward is not due to go from East London until August 2012 at the earliest.

Thus far only the outward moves have taken place and therefore the full time numbers transferring are quite small and the number of earlies are therefore small at this point.

East London's outward is fairly small and E1, E3 and E14 are going into the Mount.

In addition to the 82 processing jobs over 70 peope in Romford have expressed an intrest in a bump VR.

Over the next 3 weeks thenunion will be carrying out a full review over the next moves in the programme.

The joint statement maximises people's first choices and the union is working hard in ensuring everyone gets their preference or their second.

MTSF 2 is simply how individuals select a duty on a shift.

[Letdown]

wow dingo i find hard to figure out if your cwu or management with those politically correct answers.
as someone currently going through the process at east london on the early shift i agree with the original topic and i find little in dingos reply that actually answers any point made
i find the 'showed interest' statement to be repetetive from both management and union and totally pointless as all people really want or need to know are the true facts not what might be,i mean i 'showed interest' in buying a pizza the other day but in the end had fish and chips so the only fact there would be i had fish and chips.
as for the comment 'MTSF 2 is simply how individuals select a duty on a shift.' well if thats all its about why have i printed out 85 sheets of A4 which is supposedly the MTSF 2 agreement when if what you state is true it would have only needed 1.
also i see you make no mention of the moves being done by shift not mail centre seniority.
the union at elmc along with management made statements about job matching when moving to romford and in interviews before the move the 4 SENIOR early people were told there were 4 specific duties waiting for them but upon arrival have since been classed as being on 'specialduties' or as the people involved have called it bunged on the packets.
might be a good idea in future to check the reality of the situation before making comments and also to actually answer the question asked
theres so much more going on at the mail centre that doesnt follow the so called process and so little actual information coming from both management and union( ) alike that the early staff in particular are feeling totally alienated
i could go on but quite frankly i feel this will only go on to amuse both CWU and management and they have and are still having enough of a laugh at our expense already so i will leave with this smiley which sums up what we feel like on earlies at the moment

[Martin Walsh]

I realise that everyone in a London Mail Centre is going through a Tramatic and stressful time. The Joint Statement which was achieved in June provides for the most comprehensive people's plan ever.

The agreement ensured the following , no compulsory redundancies commitment the first time ever in an agreement bearing in mind that 1 inn every 3 jobs go that was really important. The agreement also stopped compulsory transfers and put a cap on how far away an individual could be moved. It also put back the closure of East London which was due to close in January 2012 to August 2012 and only then if Royal Mail have resolved the surplus can they move the work.

Now in terms Of MTSF 2 we did try and change this during the talks but Royal Mail estimated that this would cost millions as they would end up paying twice for someone who was on an early who then choose to sign for a shift allowance duty and then they would have to pay , pay protection to the individual who lost their shift allowance.

In terms of East London there are 78 early duties , all of these have been preferenced and the whole point is to try and maximise people's first preferences. 48 from all shifts have signed to go on VR have expressed and signed up for VR , a total of 33 from all shifts have signed for HWDC , a total of 159 across all. 3 mail centres have requested to transfer outside of greater London.

in addition their are 14 early duties at Romford , of which only 2 are classed as outward jobs. The East London inward is still in East London until next August at the earliest.

in additon we know there that 41 Romford members have shown an intrest in a bump VR which will allow further East London staff to move to Romford.

In addition there is going to be shortage of professional drivers in the region of 95 across London as a result of the plan and there will be an opportunity for anyone with a driving licence prior to 2007 to apply for a professional driving job which will mean an automatic £46 pay rise.

We realise that no one is going to be happy that their mail centre is closing and off course everyone wants to go on the same times of attendance as they enjoy now but the reality is that they have to work the duties which the receiving mail centre or if there transferring to a delivery office has agreed in order to provide quality of service.

Cheap shots about me being a manager is all very well , but I and others are working damm hard to ensure people get their first preference , even thou we all know people do not want to see their mail centre close. The East London Union is strong and good and they too are working hard to ensure that their members are being looked after. We have the Local Implematation group and the London Wide Group which meet weekly to resolve issues.

I take on board that we probably need a comms to up date people on issues and will ensure within the next 2 weeks that members receive a comprehensive update.

I can't comment on the. 4 special duties at Romford , I suggest if this is the case you raise it with the LIG and if necessary we will take it up.

I hope this updates you on the issue. remember if their is still a surplus of more than 50 then Royal Mail cannot move the inward work and therefore cannot close the mail centre. The CWU are working hard to ensure that all members in London are treated fairly in line with the joint statement.

[afrentiger]

At ELMC we have early duties information on HDWC and Jubilee MC, but nothing on Romford.

dingo, in your reply to Letdown you mentioned that “their are 14 early duties at Romford , of which only 2 are classed as outward jobs. The East London inward is still in East London until next August at the earliest.”

Are the 12 inward early duties at Romford reserved for East London MC staff when they become available?

[Letdown]

what you called a cheap shot was nothing of the kind.
i do not you and you do not know me so please stop making assumptions.
nowhere in the thread did i see any mention of your role so i made no assumptions just a statement to that effect.
i did do a more in depth reply with more information on the actual situation at elmc and some more questions in reply to your statements and information but i evidently took to long becuase they logged me out
i am not going to try again but all i will say is it would great if someone actually came down and took the time to listen to what some of the members and non members had to say about what is currently happening to the early staff in relation to the current work situation and the closure process

[afrentiger]

Our early rep went to Romford MC for a fact-finding tour, saw the situation and signed for a driving duty without warning us there would be significantly reduced early shift jobs there.

Our clear choice centre still displays crappy fictitious early duties at Romford 6 months after opening.

Staff who are already transferred to Romford MC from ELMC are now having a mini resign, We find out that people are allowed not only able to change shift, but also able to sign up to 3 SAs. Surely they should accommodate more people from ELMC than giving out regular overtime.

We, the early shift, are the victims under the MTSF2 rule.

[Letdown]

Move to Romford was quoted as 'not going to be a them and us situation' but sadly it seems from current actions it is in fact definitely a them and us situation with the mini resign only involving those that moved from ELMC and the all those SA's being offered only to ex ELMC staff and the reasons given for both actions are because both actions will be in direct relation to handling mail that would previously have been handled by ELMC.

You say 'we have the local implementation group and the London wide group which meet weekly to resolve issues.' Which is great but who and where are they and why is it only now from you we hear about them.

We also were told that all management moves at ELMC were on hold until 2012 yet 4 actually transferred this week and talking about management why is it that all the staff move apart from management.

This is supposed to be a money saving exercise yet management on earlies are now at 1-3 up to 1-7 ratio with on many occasions having 5-6 in one area managing up to 21 staff and to finish on a high note its nice to know that staff can pushed around all over the office to new areas doing jobs they have not done before without briefing or instruction and that health and safety is now a thing of the past

[Martin Walsh]

The Local Implemataion group is made up of your area reps and their substitutes and your mail centre manager , along with several other managers , in addition the acting London Processing Director sits on the LIG along with th substitute divisional rep and the regional manager who is inn charge of job matching.

The LWIG is the divisional reps and the regional management team who negotiated the joint statement. Both of these groups meet at least once per week but more often twice or three times per week.

No I cannot comment on manager changes as its not my role to deal with management changes. However the Joint Statement was clear on phasing of work , East London's outward moves were prior to Christmas to both Romford and the Mount. The inward moves were all pushed back 6 months , had we not got the joint statement East London would hav closed in February 2012. Now North London inward is targeted to go to the Mount in January but is subject to a review based on whether quality is ok and that all the surplus staff issues have been resolved. The East London inward is not due to move till late August 2012 and can only move then if all the East London staff surplus has been resolved. If it is only 10 to 20 than they will be found work on a tempoary basis on value added work in their chosen office until nature wastage takes place. if the surplus is 50 to 60 than the work will not move until the surplus has been resolved.

Like I said you orginally had 78 early duties , some have left or are due to leave on VR , some have transferred out of East London and several others have as a first preference of a transfer outside of London. Their are 14 early jobs on the Romford duty list of which 4 are for the outward and 10 are for inward. There are 6 early people at Romford who want a bump VR and a total of 41 altogether.

The attendance patterns for the Romford duties are the poperty of the Romford CWU Branch and their management , there have been a number of meetings with both East London CWU the CWU at Romford.

The Romford membership do not want an open resign , and gone are the days when mail centres had full office resigns but they do have re-picks and the indivduals who have transfered over have had a chance to sign for their SA which is good.

I will have a chat with your branch reps and will be happy to meet with the early shift to give you an update verbally , but rest assured we are ensuring that people come first and we maximise individuals first preferences.

I understand fully your concerns over MTSF and we did try and change this but Royal Mail would not move on this as they say it would cost millions. We did change the basis they wanted to use ie how long you were on the shift to simply shift seniority.

Not many companise have pay protection and that is why Royal Mail would not move on a full office seniority repick as they would end up paying someone who signed for a shift duty and than pay pay protection for the person who got knocked off their shift duty.

[JaneM]

Dingo i appreciate your clarifications of MTSF2 which is a complex document in several areas, however when royal mail ride a coach and horses through it as regards the mount i.e enhanced payments and full office resign based on seniority does it not prove MTSF2 is not fit for purpose?

[Martin Walsh]

Jane we were successful during the talks getting a full resign at the Mount. However there the case for a full office resign at the Mount was overwhelming.

Remember the Mount did all the international work and therefore their duty attendances were totally different from other mail centres. For instance they had the most earlies of any mail centre in the country 321 early duties. The New Mount's indicative duty set only had 98 early duty set. Equally the Mount staffing levels were reducing by 57% and if MTSF 2 was going to be used you would have individuals with 30 year plus being forced out of the office.

it is expected that anyone who wishes to remain in the Mount will have to have over 20 years service.

The full office resign also ensures those individuals who do not get a job at the Mount could be matched to Greenford providing they live within 1 hour commute by public transport from their home address.

In terms of the increased money this is open to any individual who wishes to go to HWDC and those who have transferred from South London and East have also received the additional compensation. Equally individuals can take their compensation in one payment up front with no deduction.

Sadly Royal Mail would not budge on East or South using senoirity as the. Basis of job matching.

[agrumpyman]

I have declined to go to my first preference processing mail centre. With over 30 plus years of loyal service to Royal Mail, I would like to stick to my attendance as long as possible.

When my mail centre eventually shuts up shop next year, will I be offered the same attendance until a vacancy existed in my new place?

I hate Tuesday – Saturday, 6am to 2pm.

[afrentiger]

Three strikes and you are out.

Some of the staff from the early shift at ELMC is learning it the hard way. When they looked at the early duty list at Romford they decided to put down Chelmsford as one of their second choice to increase their chances of doing full time work, paying rent and being useful to the society. Though there were 4 jobs opened to them, one late duty was picked up by late shift staff under MTSF2 rule. The other 3 were 3 days’ week with identical attendance pattern: 8:30 am to 10pm on Saturday, 11am to midnight on both Monday and Tuesday. They have declined going to Chelmsford due to long working hours each day.

They have been warned that if they declined the second time they would have to take VRs.

Surely, a fairer system would let early shift staff from ELMC to go to Chelmsford performing their current attendance until a general resign is held.

This MTSF2 rule is very unfair to early staff.