CWU should i stay or should i go?

[drevil1969uk]

Im writing this and dont know what to expect in reply, but im very disillusioned with our cwu and tempted to opt out, just weighing up the pros and cons.

Ok im very very pro union lets get that off the bat right away and the fact i am even saying this is bleeding hard! As far as im aware the union in there for all of the employees to stand up for our rights against management. So therefore if i have an issue with a manager and i appeal for help should i get help?

Some background, I wouldnt call myself a trouble maker at all (although some might) but if i have a problem like a way a manager is beckoning me across a mail centre floor and talking down to me for example i will go to the union for advice. Or if a gangway is blocked i may go and ask unions advice of what i do if its safe to walk past that type of thing. (everyone else dont seem to care)

Why are we being balloted as well for industrial action, im in the london region by the way. I mean, on monday a rep gave us a talking to with why we would be voting but he contradicted himself a few times on there reasoning. I also cant understand why we cant ALL be balloted not just some, i mean why only ballot the areas that might be attacked? Surely as a union we should all fight as one, all for one and all that stuff. From what i can gather management want to axe 200 jobs or something, but then he went on and started talking about all sorts of other stuff, how good our last strike was etc. (I dont rememeber it being good, felt we caved in to some extent when we had them on there knees!!)

So the area i am in tonight i dont mind being last out the door,lets get it straight, but i do object to being last out if the people im supposed to be working with have gone and left me the work!! When the manager is challenged im told too bad and get on with it. Now i have two options here, refuse to do the work and be taken into the office (already been threatned by my line manager (im also very concerned by what support i would get from my CWU rep)) or do the work and be taken for a mug!!

I went to see my union rep with the intention of saying to him i would refuse to do the work. The response i receieved knocked me back a bit as i was expecting support, instead i was told dont do it then. I was expecting him to ask more questions and maybe even ask the manager what was going on, but he never he just said leave it and that the person who usually does the job does it so therefore i should. my reply was that i felt it was unfair and that the person who usually does that job has these people taking advantage of him.(who usually work with him) (I know the person who usually does the job and he is one of the nicest people you could meet!!) So i was now in a position, if i went, would i be supported by CWU rep or would i be on my own? He didnt sound very supportive so therefore i did the work, took it on the chin but still mentioned to my manager of the uneveness of the job.

Part of the frustration of all this, and dont get me wrong, is that in the first part of the day the job im currently covering the fella that normally does it has to get empty yorkies etc for the area to set it up, but they are the other end of the building. Now again, two options with this, copy him or go by the golden rules? Copy him and push 2 or 3 pieces of things required from one end of the building to the end i want or do it properly. Now if i do it properly that would mean i was working 2 or 3 times as hard sometimes what with the extra walking! therefore i am working harder than the usual person. i dont mind but some fairness has to be done here, i mean cos of that of course it takes me longer to move things about, and at the end of the night when the work is done and the last few things need to be moved its taking me twice as long till i finish. So do i pull 2 yorks at a time and get extra time out of it or do the job properly and be punished by getting home later. also other members of staff complain cos its taking me twice as long to do things. When i brought this up with my CWU rep that it would take me twice the time cos i was doing the job properly i was told ok and that the person who usually does it has been told (a likely story)

This wasent the only occasion i been let down by the union so im really at a cross roads with them. Have more examples of what they have done to let me down (some personal, some not so personal and some to a colleague) I guess really im asking is it worth paying the fee and what do i really get out of it. Am i getting enough for what im paying? Anyone want to help with a decision with this?

[andy2007]

I wouldn't recomend leaving the CWU, as the alternative Unions aren't currently recognised by RM. So they would be in a very weak position, if you need their help. Unless you could get them recognised. And I don't know how you go about doing that.

Sadly, I can relate to a lot of what you've said about being put under pressure to take risks. We used to have a major problem with people moving 2 loaded Yorkies at a time, and too many nested empty ones (the amount varied). But thankfuly, that's now becoming rare. But to be fair, we have an advantage, as we have 2 Area H&S Reps who work in our building. And they helped a great deal in the battles against cutting corners with H&S. Even with their help, it took years to sort out!

That's why I'm so obsessive about following SSOWs: There's far too many Managers out there, who'll put you under pressure. Because your Collegues are willing to bend (or even totally ignore!) the SSOW rules, to speed things up, and you refuse.

I know it'll be more difficult for you, as you can't just knock on a door, and talk to the Area H&S Rep. But I stongly suggest that you get your H&S Rep involved ASAP. And if he/she can't sort it out. Get in contact with your Area H&S Rep. Because from what you've said: It sounds like you're being penalised for not copying your Collegue's H&S breaches, to get the job done in an otherwise impossible time frame. That can't be allowed to continue!

Good luck.

[drevil1969uk]

The thing is im NOT bending the rules im doing it properly but because of that im getting shafted!

I dont feel under pressure to bend the rules as such but i have told my cwu reps that i wont be doing more than one and that the manager can hint all he wants. The main thrust at the start of this post is this, the union have really asked for all of our support with regards to a ballot yet when i need help back it hasent been given, feel i been hung out to dry, last time this happened (we were balloted i mean) a very similar thing happened. If i was to leave the CWU i could go it alone so to speak i presume and still be able to have a mate as a witness if i was ever taken into a room etc couldnt i?

[andy2007]

I realise that you aren't bending the rules. What I said was "your Collegues are willing to bend (or even totally ignore!) the SSOW rules, to speed things up, and you refuse.". I've been in a similar situation myself, a couple of years ago. In my case, it was relating to how I drive a Reach Truck. Compared to how others are willing to drive it.

But getting back to my original point: Did you approach your Shift Rep, or your H&S Rep for help?
If it was your Shift Rep. Then you'd be much better off, approaching your H&S Rep instead. As he/she should know far more about H&S Law than your Shift Rep. If your H&S Rep can't get your Manager off your back. Then go to the Area H&S Rep, who should be able to sort it out.

This should not be happening to you, and the Manager needs to be dealt with swiftly. Before anyone else gets put into the same position.

[drevil1969uk]

Oh right sorry i didnt realise that you had seen what i was talking about as in bending rules!

It was my area rep (who is above shift rep i believe) that told me too bad pretty much. With regards to the H and S he was the other end of the building and whenever i mention problems to him he sort of shrugs his shoulders and says i have mentioned it. So useless really.

Also with regards to the managerment the union wont do anything for a reason, its like complicated. If they have an argument with my manager then the manager can either back down or stand his ground. If he backs down fair enough but he wont, so if he stands his ground then it will effect other people in the area, who are drinking buddies with the CWU rep. Rather than risk that and upset his buddies the unionj rep wont want it to go that far. Its like there own little gang and they make sure they are looked after, his mates mostly, like its a gentlemens club.

I remember we had not long ago us having unofficial industrial action over one of that gang and the same manager. The story we were given at the gates was that a member had come back and been manhandled by manager. Truth was when we went back he had come back very late and had just been tapped on the shoulder or something. So what im saying is cos im not in that little gang.....

[MEL]

i think stay. i know from personal experience how fighting and standing up for yourself can be a lonely thing (no support from rep,branchor area, the area manager telling me its always my name he hears mentioned when talking about my branch lol ). the problem is not many people can stand up to your own high standards and belief in doing the right thing. we are all after all only human.you want a union to offer help and support when you require it and this is the reason many of us join a union,and in return we give the union our help and support a perfect partnership in theory. unfortunately a union is only as strong as its weakest member and we have 2 many union reps who are serving there own agendas and there own self interests and not looking after the ordinary members on the shop floor. They want us to do the job properly but wont support us when we do. but remember as a union member you get the right to a democratic vote, the right to have your/our voice heard. remeber there are more ordinary members than reps so make your voice heard and stand for rep at the next election, determine your own future.

[andy2007]

Oh right sorry i didnt realise that you had seen what i was talking about as in bending rules!

It was my area rep (who is above shift rep i believe) that told me too bad pretty much. With regards to the H and S he was the other end of the building and whenever i mention problems to him he sort of shrugs his shoulders and says i have mentioned it. So useless really.

Also with regards to the managerment the union wont do anything for a reason, its like complicated. If they have an argument with my manager then the manager can either back down or stand his ground. If he backs down fair enough but he wont, so if he stands his ground then it will effect other people in the area, who are drinking buddies with the CWU rep. Rather than risk that and upset his buddies the unionj rep wont want it to go that far. Its like there own little gang and they make sure they are looked after, his mates mostly, like its a gentlemens club.

I remember we had not long ago us having unofficial industrial action over one of that gang and the same manager. The story we were given at the gates was that a member had come back and been manhandled by manager. Truth was when we went back he had come back very late and had just been tapped on the shoulder or something. So what im saying is cos im not in that little gang.....

Yes, the Area Rep is above the Shift Rep. But in a case where you're being unfairly compared to someone who cuts corners with H&S to outperform you. You'd be much better off going through the H&S Reps. Because they specialise in H&S issues. I just hope they've more morals than the Area Rep you've had the misfortune to deal with, up to now.

Just remember to go through the Local H&S Rep first, before going to the Area one.