PDA trouble North London

Post by **POSTMAN** » 15 Sep 2008, 20:55

Royal Mail management in North London have instructed delivery drivers to start using PDAs without an official agreement.We have previously stated here on RMC (6th Sept 08)that the CWU are looking for 'a code of practice' that "provides clear guidelines regarding their use and also incorporates safeguards for our members" which Royal Mail have so far refused to give.Negotiations are on going but the North London managers decided to ignore this and threaten the posties with suspension without pay if they refused to use them.

In the end as the drivers stood firm,managers from other parts of North London and East as well were drafted in to do their work.The CWU's Bob Gibson was due to meet management today.

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 16 Sep 2008, 15:19

No. 704/08
Ref:540
Date: 15th September 2008

To: Branches with POSTAL Members

Dear Colleague

Postal Digital Assistants (PDAs)

Further to LTB 693/08, Branches will be aware that we have reached an impasse concerning the rollout/deployment of PDAs. However, at a meeting held with Royal Mail Management today it became apparent that the issues raised go much wider than purely this piece of equipment and do in fact embrace the deployment of all new technology.

We have not yet concluded “a generic framework to deal with the trialling and implementation of all new technology” as set out in the Pay and Modernisation agreement and the attached Joint Statement has been agreed to deal with that question.

While the terms set out in the Joint Statement are being actioned, Branches are asked to make our Reps and Members aware of this position and to take all steps possible to avoid any flashpoints with Management in respect of the use of PDAs. Further information will be issued in due course.

Please distribute this as quickly as possible using text messages/emails etc.

Any enquiries to Bob Gibson’s Office, quoting reference 540
Email address: hnutley@cwu.org

Yours sincerely

Bob Gibson
Assistant Secretary

PDA’s RATHBONE PLACE 15TH SEPTEMBER 2008

Royal Mail and CWU accept that there is a need to finalise the generic deployment framework referred to in section 2 (Delivering Change and Flexibility) in the Pay and Modernisation Agreement, in order to provide clarity. We have jointly committed to resolving this matter before the end of September 2008.

In the meantime we are both keen to avoid any flashpoints regarding the deployment of PDAs therefore CWU Branches should continue to cooperate with the rollout/deployment of the PDAs.

Further communication will be issued in due course.

DGP1 · Post by **DGP1** » 16 Sep 2008, 16:08

take all steps possible to avoid any flashpoints with Management in respect of the use of PDAs

It's the management that create the flashpoints, manager say take them out - CWU rep says no agreement - manager threatens staff with conduct code if they don't comply. The union needs to pull it's finger out and either say yes or no.

Post by **POSTMAN** » 16 Sep 2008, 16:11

To: Branches with POSTAL Members

Dear Colleague

Hand Helds / Postal Digital Assistants ( PDAs)

Further to LTBs 347/08 and 682/08 in which we explained the position with regard to the un-agreed introduction of the above mentioned devices, we are of the opinion that we should further clarify the position in respect of training and provide Branches with an updated position on the matter.

We have been made aware by numerous Branches and indeed whole divisions, that Royal Mail are seeking to train our members in the use of Postal Digital Assistants (PDAs) for the purpose of an eventual deployment of the devices into all relevant workplaces. At this juncture, it would be particularly poignant for us to remind Branches that CWU HQ have no in-principle disagreement with the future use of the PDA device, once a nationally agreed Code of Practice is in place that gives definitive guidelines on the use of the equipment and incorporates vital safeguards for our members whilst they are using the device.

Branches are therefore advised that there should be no in principle opposition to the institution of training programmes in readiness for the eventual deployment of the device. This advice has been consistently given out by this department following the publication of LTB 682/08.

However, there remains no agreement in place with regard to the deployment of Postal Digital Assistants (PDAs) into our workplaces and as such, Branches are advised to register disagreement locally, in line with the Industrial Relations Framework, agreed between the CWU and Royal Mail, on the subject of the un-agreed use and deployment of PDAs without a nationally agreed Code of Practice.

Post by **POSTMAN** » 16 Sep 2008, 16:14

Got this today from London Div.

londondiv.jpg

norbert · Post by **norbert** » 16 Sep 2008, 19:03

disgruntledpostie1 wrote:
take all steps possible to avoid any flashpoints with Management in respect of the use of PDAs

It's the management that create the flashpoints, manager say take them out - CWU rep says no agreement - manager threatens staff with conduct code if they don't comply. The union needs to pull it's finger out and either say yes or no.

Aerial Sharron school of IR ? - Must be a lot of pressure from on high , provocative ? - union want to stop sitting on the fence and up the anti ? :lfo :cfo

k979aaa · Post by **k979aaa** » 16 Sep 2008, 19:44

1 INTRODUCTION In order for royalmail to thrive as a business and to ensure that it remains able to compete effectivly it is recognised that change is going to have to happen at a scale and pace never experienced before. BOTH royalmail and the cwu are jointly committed to working together to deliver change by AGGREMENT, continuing to protect jobs (in line with our commitment in mtsf) and provide high quality terms and conditions for all employees. BOTH parties recognise that a fresh start is needed and are commited to moveing away from the adversarial relationships that persist in too many parts of the business. this needs to be replaced by respect for different viewpoints and a determination to work together to find common sense solutions that are mutully beneficial. This agreement lays the basis for changeing how we work to ensure a successful future for the business, its employees and how the buiness and the cwu will work together. THE PAY AND MODERNISATION AGREEMENT 2007!. THIS AGREEMENT IS NOW DEAD AS IT'S AIMS HAVE FAILED IN ROYALMAILS DEED'S TO DESTROY IT'S STATED AIMS!. IT IS LIKE THE GOOD FRIDAY AGREEMENT BUT WITH THE IRA STILL BOMBING EVERY OTHER WEEK!. :cfo & :lfo

BELIAL · Post by **BELIAL** » 16 Sep 2008, 20:29

Ease up on the IRA K9 some of those bombs did them no favours,the question you gotta ask is who gains?
You must agree ,the political landscape changed with unseemly haste as soon as the provos targeted Big Money

F0zziebear · Post by **F0zziebear** » 17 Sep 2008, 00:11

Its a fcuking PDA for heavens sake. It means that special deliveries can be ditigally signed off and therefore the system can be updated immediately for the benefit of customers. Jesus, you would have thought these PDA's are some toxic chemical that posties are being asked to transport. Every other company has them, yet you think that these untrustworthy things should be treated with suspicion.

Grow-up, and realise that RM needs to be brought into the 20th century (not a is-spelling). No point trying to get into the 21st century when you are so far behind. Why should I wait hours before I can confirm my special delivery has arrived when I am paying loads of money for it.

DGP1 · Post by **DGP1** » 17 Sep 2008, 00:30

F0zziebear wrote:Its a fcuking PDA for heavens sake. It means that special deliveries can be ditigally signed off and therefore the system can be updated immediately for the benefit of customers. Jesus, you would have thought these PDA's are some toxic chemical that posties are being asked to transport. Every other company has them, yet you think that these untrustworthy things should be treated with suspicion.

Grow-up, and realise that RM needs to be brought into the 20th century (not a is-spelling). No point trying to get into the 21st century when you are so far behind. Why should I wait hours before I can confirm my special delivery has arrived when I am paying loads of money for it.

That's fine in theory but you'll find that RM management will just use it as another stick to beat us and what happens to the walk men, do they have to carry them on the streets for several hours on all weathers, praying that they don't get wet or get dropped because it'll be a gross misconduct offence.

norbert · Post by **norbert** » 17 Sep 2008, 02:08

disgruntledpostie1 wrote:
F0zziebear wrote:Its a fcuking PDA for heavens sake. It means that special deliveries can be ditigally signed off and therefore the system can be updated immediately for the benefit of customers. Jesus, you would have thought these PDA's are some toxic chemical that posties are being asked to transport. Every other company has them, yet you think that these untrustworthy things should be treated with suspicion.

Grow-up, and realise that RM needs to be brought into the 20th century (not a is-spelling). No point trying to get into the 21st century when you are so far behind. Why should I wait hours before I can confirm my special delivery has arrived when I am paying loads of money for it.
That's fine in theory but you'll find that RM management will just use it as another stick to beat us and what happens to the walk men, do they have to carry them on the streets for several hours on all weathers, praying that they don't get wet or get dropped because it'll be a gross misconduct offence.

you have ask why there is such a trust issue - if it was just for reggies but

Night Tonic · Post by **Night Tonic** » 17 Sep 2008, 08:55

It also reinforces the dinosaur image we seem to have Norb. I'm with Fozzie on this one.

F0zziebear · Post by **F0zziebear** » 17 Sep 2008, 10:51

I appreciate the trust issue, but it comes from both sides. It is clear you do not trust management (in general) not to stab you in the back and take you for a ride. However, the same in considered from management (in general) that posties are out to do as little as possible for maximum gain. This perception is what causes much of the school playground behaviour, and possibly why RM management feels the need to monitor frontline employees work.

As for PDA's one could argue that they are a spying device as the unions argued when telemetry was first trialled on vehicles. My only argument is that these gadgets have been used on other vehicles for years. With the massive improvements in the use of GPS it makes sense to use this for the advantage it can give to customers, but also allow RM to possible run it's resources more efficiently. By resources I mean both people, the mail itself and vehicles. Hundreds of millions is spent on fuel every year so it makes sense to try and find the more efficient routes.

Unfortunately I have some sympathy with frontline employees as management have a record of screwing things up and your mis-trust of any change they want to implment is understandable, but in these times more work needs to be done between unions and management to create an air of trust so that you can compete agaisnt the boys in yellow.

One side point of interest is the relative IR harmony at the moment. Is this because Tony McCarthy left and Jon Millidge has temporary taken his place (former IR director?) one for another thread I believe

k979aaa · Post by **k979aaa** » 17 Sep 2008, 15:13

I have nothing against the use of the PDA'S just the fact that all change should be negotiated with our union as in the aim's of the pay and modernisation agreement 2007!. Or should we as the aggrieved party in this travesty of an agreement abrogate it for the sham it is and alway's will be!. What are the terms of referance to disciplinary proceedure's and the conduct code!. What if one of these device's is a dud and as such you take out your 20/30 special delivery item's and upon return to the office all record of the item's deliverd have disappeared into the ether!. IE your manager says you have lost them or failed to get a signature for the items!. WHERE DO YOU STAND!.

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 17 Sep 2008, 15:20

I am in the middle ground on this one. I think in the end if handled correctly and with the right agreements in place they could actually help posties, For instance when you say you have too big a walk all the boss has to do is check the recent logs and he can see that. It will also help plan walks more effectively so that Safe Drops and Pouch Boxes can be more efficiently located, this would cut down on any dead walking.

I think, and I hope most would agree, that all Royal Mail have to do is announce an Amnesty on any disciplinary action that may result from data produced by the software, or for any but deliberate damage to the units, until RM and the CWU get an agreement for their use. That would mean that the units could be used straight away.

For me its not the spy in the pouch/cab that I am worried about, but how the data is used and if it can be abused.