LTB 096/19 - Actual Hours Data Capture Equipment - Site Surveys

[TrueBlueTerrier]

LTB 096/19 - Actual Hours Data Capture Equipment – Site Surveys

No. 096/2019

11th February 2019



For The Immediate Attention Of:

Postal Branches

Divisional Representatives



Actual Hours Data Capture Equipment – Site Surveys

Dear Colleagues,

Branches and representatives are informed that the Automated Hours Data Capture trial activity has concluded and is currently subject to review at National level, in line with the agreed Terms of Reference (LTB 295/18 refers).

We have however been informed by Royal Mail National Management that they may be undertaking a number of site surveys, in order to identify and establish where in future the equipment and kit associated with this project could be installed, and to understand the associated projected costs.

Royal Mail have stated that this is necessary in order to inform the future Business case if the decision is made to pursue deployment of this initiative. They are also stating that at this stage the Business case decision has not been made to deploy or roll out the use of AHDC equipment Nationally and therefore as such the site survey activity is purely a preparatory exercise.

From the CWU perspective we have made it absolutely clear to the company that the trial activity in relation to this initiative has not been fully and jointly reviewed and evaluated in line with the Nationally agreed Terms of Reference. Therefore any National rollout or deployment is subject to further National discussion and agreement prior to any deployment taking place.

Branches and representatives will of course be updated as developments occur. However, in the meantime you are requested to monitor the situation and ensure that should there be any managerial attempts to introduce AHDC that this is challenged via the IR Framework and the relevant department is notified immediately.

Any enquires in relation to this LTB should be directed to:

Deliveries: Outdoor Department, reference 230.03, email address: outdoorsecretary@cwu.org.

Or

Processing & RDC’s: Davie Robertson, Assistant Secretary, email: dwyatt@cwu.org or shayman@cwu.org quoting reference number: 730.13.

Yours sincerely,



Mark Baulch – Assistant Secretary

Katrina Quirke – Acting Assistant Secretary

LTB 096.19 – Actual Hours Data Capture Equipment – Site Surveys https://emails.cwu.org/t/d-l-nulhlo-ztkjiuyil-i/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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[Chalky13]

Terrier, is that essentially saying the PDA actuals will be rolled out nationally after hours are checked per DO? But isn’t agreed by the union?

[worktotime]

Terrier, is that essentially saying the PDA actuals will be rolled out nationally after hours are checked per DO? But isn’t agreed by the union?

pda actuals have already been rolled out nationally and was agreed by the cwu . but I don't think any managers or office use it .

[zipmeister]

This isn't about PDA actuals it's about scanning into and out of your unit.

[citypostie]

That sounds like they aren't convinced they are going to reap the benefits they thought they would by rolling it out nationally. They will end up using it in mail centres and sacking it off in delivery offices because someone has realised it will just make people work slower to fill their hours up and probably have the knock on effect of people refusing overtime meaning failures all over the place

[Shedend]

Do not confuse PDA actuals with AHDC. Out of all the trials RM have conducted it would seem this is the one they want the most. In the trial offices they ran the 552 process of paying overtime along side the trial of AHDC and there was a vast difference in the actual hours worked (AHDC) to that paid out (552's). That is why RM want Actual Hours Data Capture.

[rambo1]

Do not confuse PDA actuals with AHDC. Out of all the trials RM have conducted it would seem this is the one they want the most. In the trial offices they ran the 552 process of paying overtime along side the trial of AHDC and there was a vast difference in the actual hours worked (AHDC) to that paid out (552's). That is why RM want Actual Hours Data Capture.

That's the bit I don't quite get . It tells the manager on your pda when you log out. Unless you're getting the locker staff to log off for you later, then there's no way to fudge it. Managers KNOW posties that help them out with overtime, are finishing early or ghosting . It's a management problem, not postie.

[worktotime]

This isn't about PDA actuals it's about scanning into and out of your unit.

yes that's what I thought .

[worktotime]

Do not confuse PDA actuals with AHDC. Out of all the trials RM have conducted it would seem this is the one they want the most. In the trial offices they ran the 552 process of paying overtime along side the trial of AHDC and there was a vast difference in the actual hours worked (AHDC) to that paid out (552's). That is why RM want Actual Hours Data Capture.

[SpacePhoenix]

Do not confuse PDA actuals with AHDC. Out of all the trials RM have conducted it would seem this is the one they want the most. In the trial offices they ran the 552 process of paying overtime along side the trial of AHDC and there was a vast difference in the actual hours worked (AHDC) to that paid out (552's). That is why RM want Actual Hours Data Capture.

That's the bit I don't quite get . It tells the manager on your pda when you log out. Unless you're getting the locker staff to log off for you later, then there's no way to fudge it. Managers KNOW posties that help them out with overtime, are finishing early or ghosting . It's a management problem, not postie.

They can probably check the GPS coordinates of where you were when the PDA was logged off, if they can't I'd imagine it'd be fairly easy for them to tweak the software to be able to do so

That sounds like they aren't convinced they are going to reap the benefits they thought they would by rolling it out nationally. They will end up using it in mail centres and sacking it off in delivery offices because someone has realised it will just make people work slower to fill their hours up and probably have the knock on effect of people refusing overtime meaning failures all over the place

Wouldn't work in MCs, for outward mail it gets handled twice (once to break the mail down to regions and the second time down to MC level) and will only be scanned once). for inward mail only Tracked and specials get scanned. You'd need at least double the number of PDAs and double the number of finger scanners to try and implement it.

[citypostie]

Its clocking in and out, it would work in a mc because it's like a factory you scan your I'd card when you arrive and when you leave. In delivery offices it will create a slow down approach to work to make sure people are at their finish times and the majority won't be willing to do overtime when it's after duty time and you only get paid for the time it takes unless they are the sort of person who's willing to be out until stupid oclock to make it worthwhile, I've only ever met 1 person like that in 20+ years in the delivery offices I've worked in

[citypostie]

Do not confuse PDA actuals with AHDC. Out of all the trials RM have conducted it would seem this is the one they want the most. In the trial offices they ran the 552 process of paying overtime along side the trial of AHDC and there was a vast difference in the actual hours worked (AHDC) to that paid out (552's). That is why RM want Actual Hours Data Capture.

That's the bit I don't quite get . It tells the manager on your pda when you log out. Unless you're getting the locker staff to log off for you later, then there's no way to fudge it. Managers KNOW posties that help them out with overtime, are finishing early or ghosting . It's a management problem, not postie.

And that's why the managers at the sharp end in delivery offices don't want it in, they know it will cause them untold problems with getting mail out unless they can fill all the vacancies.

[SpacePhoenix]

Its clocking in and out, it would work in a mc because it's like a factory you scan your I'd card when you arrive and when you leave. In delivery offices it will create a slow down approach to work to make sure people are at their finish times and the majority won't be willing to do overtime when it's after duty time and you only get paid for the time it takes unless they are the sort of person who's willing to be out until stupid oclock to make it worthwhile, I've only ever met 1 person like that in 20+ years in the delivery offices I've worked in

Isn't going to make any difference, we fail many days, if anything they need to put a good few hours in

[Shedend]

Do not confuse PDA actuals with AHDC. Out of all the trials RM have conducted it would seem this is the one they want the most. In the trial offices they ran the 552 process of paying overtime along side the trial of AHDC and there was a vast difference in the actual hours worked (AHDC) to that paid out (552's). That is why RM want Actual Hours Data Capture.

That's the bit I don't quite get . It tells the manager on your pda when you log out. Unless you're getting the locker staff to log off for you later, then there's no way to fudge it. Managers KNOW posties that help them out with overtime, are finishing early or ghosting . It's a management problem, not postie.

And that's why the managers at the sharp end in delivery offices don't want it in, they know it will cause them untold problems with getting mail out unless they can fill all the vacancies.

Managers at the sharp end will not have any choice in he matter. They will be told to fill the vacancies so that will only leave sick and pressure overtime to cover. Many say they will not do the overtime if they are only going to be paid for the hours they work (no ghosting). Now that is fine if you can afford to make that stance but if you need to earn £400 a week before they introduce AHDC you will still need to earn it after. If that makes sense.

[Chalky13]

Cheers guys, didn’t realise this. So essentially clocking in and out.

It was talked about last summer at our place, most people said it’d never happen