Why I won't bother joining unions

templek · Post by **templek** » 13 May 2017, 17:52

Unfortunately I was stabbed in the back by both the union and management both said I can use my car for deliveries. I was doing all that to help them out, they kept asking me to do extra when they knew I was last back at the office and none of the regular staff would do it

However they would not help when other managers found out And only interested in saving their own skins. I was not wilfully delaying mail. I won't be joining unions anymore.
From my experience they only help based on seniority or popularity so if you are not 'one of the boys' or been there at least ten years forget. They just share the easy overtime and easy shifts among mates while others have to bid for them the long way. To be honest I don't care if I'm called a scab. I have my reasons.

redneck · Post by **redneck** » 13 May 2017, 17:57

Unfortunately all union reps and all managers are not super human beings. That is not a reason to not join a union

Mobey · Post by **Mobey** » 13 May 2017, 18:10

You did have the right insurance didn't you?

Post by **midegarelu** » 13 May 2017, 18:27

I'm sorry you have had a bad experience. However overall the Union is only as good as its members.
Ultimately in a business this size there will always be winners and losers, but usually its all about the perspective
from where you are standing.
This is not a good time to not be a member. There will be a multitude of challenges to come in the next few years,
and by not being a member you will have no say in anything that comes.
As I see it your main objection is your Rep, however up and down the country hundreds of Reps do sterling work, usually unpaid
and outside of their working hours, please don't use your experience to beat up the Union as a whole.
Outside of the Union you will no longer be able take part in elections for your local Rep.
At the end of the day you have a choice, and that choice has come from the hard work and sacrifice of others in years gone by.

Destiny · Post by **Destiny** » 13 May 2017, 18:28

Yup, try being a Rep stabbed in the back & left out too dry by the likes of you.
Rant about something but this is just BS, self-interest, got what you deserve!

datasaint · Post by **datasaint** » 13 May 2017, 18:34

Worst argument for not being in the union ever.

Why did you not challenge it with the area rep when you found out it wasn't allowed? If you had no idea.

No offence, but I suspect you knew it wasn't allowed but did it anyway as it was more convenient on the way home.

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 13 May 2017, 19:26

There's such a thing as personal responsibility. You made a bad call, you took someone's advice without asking for any legitimate confirmation in writing. You can partially blame the individuals involved for that but you can't blame the union. The union has a clear position on the use of private cars on delivery as does the business and both positions are available in writing.

templek · Post by **templek** » 13 May 2017, 20:25

When the other managers found out I was sent home and wasn't asked to come back. The union or managers didn't support in anyway since it was done with a 'nod wink' agreement in other words they would always be in the dark. After a couple of weeks I contacted the managers. they made it clear along with the rep they couldn't help, I couldn't get a transfer to another office or doing different duties only option was to resign. Which I did. That was around 18 months. I'm back with RM not as a postie or on a permanent contract. Maybe they took me back after I said I didn't have any confidence in the unions based on my experiences

jetblack · Post by **jetblack** » 13 May 2017, 20:42

templek wrote: Maybe they took me back after I said I didn't have any confidence in the unions based on my experiences

That would help, yes.

k979aaa · Post by **k979aaa** » 13 May 2017, 21:31

templek wrote:Unfortunately I was stabbed in the back by both the union and management both said I can use my car for deliveries. I was doing all that to help them out, they kept asking me to do extra when they knew I was last back at the office and none of the regular staff would do it

However they would not help when other managers found out And only interested in saving their own skins. I was not wilfully delaying mail. I won't be joining unions anymore.
From my experience they only help based on seniority or popularity so if you are not 'one of the boys' or been there at least ten years forget. They just share the easy overtime and easy shifts among mates while others have to bid for them the long way. To be honest I don't care if I'm called a scab. I have my reasons.

Your a mug as you should never use your own car as for the rest of your rant you can always say NO.

telithowitis · Post by **telithowitis** » 14 May 2017, 00:38

You and all of us have the right to choose whether to join the Union or not. If you didn't then why should the Union Rep help you out when you drop in it because you listened to some lies off a manager that went wrong for you?
I was given good advice years ago,, if it looks or sounds right it probably is, if it doesn't look or sound right it probably isn't!
Some might think in your case you should have used your common sense and checked out with a few colleagues or even posted a question on here before doing something pretty silly like using your own car. That's why we have red vans with Royal Mail on the side so we don't have to!
So my question to you is -
Were you in the union before you dropped in it? YES OR NO - If not don't come on here whinging about the union and your plight. You should have paid up your subs if you wanted to be helped out when you got in trouble.
If you did and you were not happy with the local reps response then you should have got hold of the area rep, but frankly I can't see any rep advising you it's okay to use your own car, so I like most readers I suspect will think you didn't join and are now regretting at your leisure?

robsbelly · Post by **robsbelly** » 14 May 2017, 08:15

Why the hell should the union help you out. I pay for my subscription into the union.you should have known not to use your own vehicle.i don't believe in calling people strike breakers for not being in the union,but don't complain when you mess up and get no backing.

rubberbond · Post by **rubberbond** » 14 May 2017, 08:48

templek wrote:When the other managers found out I was sent home and wasn't asked to come back. The union or managers didn't support in anyway since it was done with a 'nod wink' agreement in other words they would always be in the dark. After a couple of weeks I contacted the managers. they made it clear along with the rep they couldn't help, I couldn't get a transfer to another office or doing different duties only option was to resign. Which I did. That was around 18 months. I'm back with RM not as a postie or on a permanent contract. Maybe they took me back after I said I didn't have any confidence in the unions based on my experiences

There are two points here,
1) if you felt your only option was to resign, why not sue for constructive dismissal?
2) if you were treated so badly,why come back?

Post by **Judgee** » 14 May 2017, 08:51

Union reps are often caught between a rock and a hard place and it's a thankless task. As in life, the level of competence in them can vary greatly too. I do feel our union as a whole is far too buddy buddy with management these days. But better to be in a weak union than none at all.

Everyone must choose their own path and suffer the consequences. You knew you were going against the rules. The union is there to try and rectify the consequences of management breaking the rules, not help members suffering from acts of their own stupidity!

Martin Walsh · Post by **Martin Walsh** » 14 May 2017, 10:05

I really do think some individuals believe the union can stop everything and do everything that an employee wants. Whilst the UPW , UCW and now the CWU have made a significant difference to pay , pensions and the terms and conditions that an employee enjoys the reality it cannot simply stop everything Royal Mail wants to do and neither can it control every single Royal Mail Manager who is a bully.

Membership has not been higher for over 5 years. Non members dipped below 20 thousand for the first time this year. Membership in Royal Mail stands at 110 thousand and there are 129 thousand Royal Mail employees. The biggest non membership regions are Northern Ireland , Scotland and the North East.

The CWU are not perfect but you can see what would happen if there was no union by what Royal Mail want. The problem with too many members is that they think the CWU is either those based at CWU HQs or their local or Area Rep. The reality it is them as well and if some starting acting collectively instead of blaming the local Rep , Area Rep or those at Wimbledon they would soon find that standing together will make a difference.

The reality is that those offices who do this and have been doing this for years and that is right across the U.K. Normally have the best local agreements not because of those based at Wimbledon HQ but because Royal Mail know that office will stand together and like they always do they go to easier pickings.

In terms of the start of this thread it is illegal and breaking the law to drive your own car whilst out on delivery. Royal Mail in 2010 withdrew each offices ability to use the insurance bond when they introduced delivery methods and therefore if you carry any work in your private car you are not only breaking Royal Mail's strict rules which will be subject to the conduct code but your own insurance is invalid. If your really not joining the CWU as they could not get Royal Mail to agree for you to use your own private car on delivery whilst all the remaining 129 thousands others cannot do so than your best off out of the CWU as you clearly don't understand that the union is there to support individuals and the collective workforce but it cannot do the impossible.