testing dutys outdoor.

[worktotime]

hi can a rep or anybody with the knowledge know if there is a criteria to test a delivery with rep and dom , ie mail count etc ?

[postslippete]

Generally, Managers only ever test deliveries from the indoor work that you have got e.g. number of calls, mail count and volume of packets. One senior Rep told me during some revisions that managers and reps do not physically go out on delivery with you because they don't have the man hours to do that. Thats what Geo Route is for on their computers, so that they don't have to leave the office! It is supposed to calculate everything. Though I suspect if more posties were prepared to use their trolleys in the way that they had been intended with the managers shadowing them; then some revisions should actually be made to reduce most deliveries, not extend them in any way.

[worktotime]

Generally, Managers only ever test deliveries from the indoor work that you have got e.g. number of calls, mail count and volume of packets. One senior Rep told me during some revisions that managers and reps do not physically go out on delivery with you because they don't have the man hours to do that. Thats what Geo Route is for on their computers, so that they don't have to leave the office! It is supposed to calculate everything. Though I suspect if more posties were prepared to use their trolleys in the way that they had been intended with the managers shadowing them; then some revisions should actually be made to reduce most deliveries, not extend them in any way.

that's the problem these lads do the job as you are supposed to start on time , van check, lwts and m/r no collapse as they go over on most days and when they don't go over they finish on time , never finish early , now they have staff complaining that they don't get extra and one day last week they had 2 runners on it that work the opposite to the way these lads work and surprise surprise they finished early so the dom thinks these lads are tossing it off, so the dom has told the rep they are going to be tested but they need to know what is involved in it , oh and these 2 lads have been tested indoors and pissed it , so any info would be great so these lads can make sure there not getting stitched up.

[osgoody1970]

had area rep and deputy test two walks in my office, both found to be well over five hours and rep could,nt believe how fast the posties were actually walking at, nothing ever came of it though.

[ThatsNotPlumb]

had area rep and deputy test two walks in my office, both found to be well over five hours and rep could,nt believe how fast the posties were actually walking at, nothing ever came of it though.

No shock there.

Everybody has different walking, sorting & general delivery speeds. Some people can make hilly, high volume walks look easier than they are, not because they are running like some people seem to suggest, just that they are naturally quicker, perhaps younger as well. Then you've people who can make incredibly low volume calls, flat ground look more difficult than they are or should be.

The computer software that is largely used to measure & I presume develop the walks, is largely useless as I don't feel it takes a number of things into account. Not to mention, management is always keen to tell you about mail/packet drops/rises & the volume of items handled figures week to week, month to month, year to year.. it doesn't take an expert to realise that if these things are changing & in some areas/walks/loops the drops/rise is pretty drastic, then the walks & duties obviously need to be re-calibrated in order to reflect those changes & again in some places those changes to duties would need to be every few months in an ideal world. Communicating & asking the staff that actually do the delivery rather than getting a computer to measure it would be a good start.

[worktotime]

thanks for the few that have replied to this , so there are no reps on here to give these lads an idea of what goes on before and during delivery , this has really disappointed me that there are 2 members wanting some advice and get jack s**t , this seems the in thing at the mo with the cwu lets concentrate on the peoples post and corbyn and f**k the issues going on with the members on a daily basis,

[Ahebban]

The only jointly-agreed tests in respect to indoor work are the one minute tests for prep and ips.

Postslippete correctly states that Georoute is the agreed method for planning duties.

Reps/posties should have had input during the Revision process to point out any anomalies that might affect duty structure, lengths, loops etc. The more work that can be put in during the Revision to get duties correct the better - if that can't be achieved then the Rep/posties should use the IR Framework to highlight matters for resolution.

Don't get too involved with mail counts as they don't really resemble how long the duty will take as all the frame shows is the number of delivery points to be visited. Anything above 85 per cent should really be looked at as posting to every delivery point (100 per cent).

I have been out on previous occasions confirming that particular duties are not possible to complete within the time allocated. All you can do is get an overall picture of the time taken to do the delivery. It will be dependent on weather conditions, the volume of mail/packets, the day chosen etc, etc - way too many variables to arrive at an accurate measure of time taken. The only real possible highlights that might arise are if there are more efficient ways to do the delivery, i.e. change the delivery route, shorten/lengthen loops etc. But the posties themselves should not feel intimidated under the scrutiny of the DOM/Rep, just left alone to get on doing the job properly.

However, proving it and getting deliveries amended are two different matters entirely once the Revision is in place. You can only measure the duty against the duty holder(s) - to try and do otherwise is not a true measure of how long the duty takes to complete. If it can be seen by both DOM and Rep that they are doing the job properly and still going over time you will most likely find the DOM will back down rather than have the hassle of re-hashing the duff Revision he put in.

If a DOM states 'so-and-so pairing can do it on time, so why can't you?' get your Rep involved and/or take out a Grievance or Bullying/Harassment case against him citing the jointly-agreed Fairness, Dignity and Respect agreement.

[worktotime]

The only jointly-agreed tests in respect to indoor work are the one minute tests for prep and ips.

Postslippete correctly states that Georoute is the agreed method for planning duties.

Reps/posties should have had input during the Revision process to point out any anomalies that might affect duty structure, lengths, loops etc. The more work that can be put in during the Revision to get duties correct the better - if that can't be achieved then the Rep/posties should use the IR Framework to highlight matters for resolution.

Don't get too involved with mail counts as they don't really resemble how long the duty will take as all the frame shows is the number of delivery points to be visited. Anything above 85 per cent should really be looked at as posting to every delivery point (100 per cent).

I have been out on previous occasions confirming that particular duties are not possible to complete within the time allocated. All you can do is get an overall picture of the time taken to do the delivery. It will be dependent on weather conditions, the volume of mail/packets, the day chosen etc, etc - way too many variables to arrive at an accurate measure of time taken. The only real possible highlights that might arise are if there are more efficient ways to do the delivery, i.e. change the delivery route, shorten/lengthen loops etc. But the posties themselves should not feel intimidated under the scrutiny of the DOM/Rep, just left alone to get on doing the job properly.

However, proving it and getting deliveries amended are two different matters entirely once the Revision is in place. You can only measure the duty against the duty holder(s) - to try and do otherwise is not a true measure of how long the duty takes to complete. If it can be seen by both DOM and Rep that they are doing the job properly and still going over time you will most likely find the DOM will back down rather than have the hassle of re-hashing the duff Revision he put in.

If a DOM states 'so-and-so pairing can do it on time, so why can't you?' get your Rep involved and/or take out a Grievance or Bullying/Harassment case against him citing the jointly-agreed Fairness, Dignity and Respect agreement.

thanks for your info , but this is there problem they was up against a dom giving these lads collapse everyday which there totally refused due to either finishing on time or going over on there own or refusing to do it on o/t this went on for over a year with daily arguments in the end the lads put a b&h form in which got put down to a stage 2 a grievance (a dom bullying no way) so they was found in there favour the so called dom got moved on, but it all started 1 day last week when these 2 lads was off he put 2 of his runners on it and they destroyed it and they are still on about taking 3 dutys out the office for good and also add more to there duty as well , started early , no breaks , no lwt , running with bags on there backs and he has said he will test the duty because these 2 can do it , and all they wanted was to know if there is a criteria so they can make sure its done right as they have the know of what he should and shouldn't be doing , and these lads have already said they cant walk any quicker and in a safer way with a lwt and refuse to carry a bag. thanks.

[postslippete]

Thats just classic bad management


We have had cases of a few duties that are just way too big in our section. So our line manager pairs one of the guys up with Billy Whizz and BOOM! they totally smash it by clocking in an hour before scheduled end!! So it looks like that the duty is actually really, really easy and that these 2 duty holder guys doing it are that slow they look like they are going backwards...

The problem is once the revision goes through and their frame still gets additional calls that puts them over their time. What does the manager do everyday when these guys, who are well within their rights, insist on working to their time and not doing any overtime?? This is a daily problem in our section because they simply made too many of the rounds too big. In fairness we had no rep involved in the revisions that had any knowledge of our section and it shows. And I can tell you right here and now that the only one feeling enormously stressed out by it all and has difficulty sleeping at night worrying about tomorrow is the line manager himself

[worktotime]

Thats just classic bad management


We have had cases of a few duties that are just way too big in our section. So our line manager pairs one of the guys up with Billy Whizz and BOOM! they totally smash it by clocking in an hour before scheduled end!! So it looks like that the duty is actually really, really easy and that these 2 duty holder guys doing it are that slow they look like they are going backwards...

The problem is once the revision goes through and their frame still gets additional calls that puts them over their time. What does the manager do everyday when these guys, who are well within their rights, insist on working to their time and not doing any overtime?? This is a daily problem in our section because they simply made too many of the rounds too big. In fairness we had no rep involved in the revisions that had any knowledge of our section and it shows. And I can tell you right here and now that the only one feeling enormously stressed out by it all and has difficulty sleeping at night worrying about tomorrow is the line manager himself

these 2 lads have both been on sick with stress with all the crap they have been through and to be fair these lads have been prepared to go over to complete there own and claim but once its tested and is found to be to big then they are cutting off everyday , they usually get the management s**t as , well your not due out by ? or why ? or and you've only got x amount of mail , which the figures are a load of s**t as one of the lads have been counting his mail as he puts it in inc d2ds and he is hundreds out everyday , he has asked the dom a few times to come and count his mail but he wouldn't , I haven't got time , lol , how can you be punished or singled out for doing the job as r/m have told you.