Saturdays Off

[zooom]

Apparently in my Delivery office Royal Mail is intending to move to 1 in 6 Saturdays off from what we currently have which is 1 in 4 Saturdays off.

"The collectively agreed terms and conditions of employees will not be worsened in any respect or changed unless amended by agreement"

Above is a quote from the Agenda for Growth Agreement. Now, maybe I am being a bit thick here.....but isn't going from having 1 in 4 Saturdays off to 1 in 6 Saturdays off "Worsening our Conditions"????

[clashcityrocker]

What are the consequences of staying on 1 in 4?
They may also be considered as a worsening of your conditions if it means a loss of duties and longer delivery spans.

[zooom]

From what I have heard moving back to 1 in 6 is to maintain as many full time jobs as possible. I am not entirely convinced about that. We have had a number of full and part time staff leave in the last 6 months and they have not filled these roles. So surely if office savings and hours need to be found this can be done through natural wastage so to speak.

[hans solo]

think you will find mgmt cant be bothered to fill duties properly
easy way out is scrap 1 in 4(WHICH THEY CANT DO WITHOUT AGREEMENT)
refer matter to hq london if they try exc action
also if they scrap 1 in 4 ask if they are prepared to scrap all the other parts of agreements as well
ie deliv spans over 2.30 no more

[zooom]

think you will find mgmt cant be bothered to fill duties properly
easy way out is scrap 1 in 4(WHICH THEY CANT DO WITHOUT AGREEMENT)
refer matter to hq london if they try exc action
also if they scrap 1 in 4 ask if they are prepared to scrap all the other parts of agreements as well
ie deliv spans over 2.30 no more

They can do what they want via executive action. Question is, like many other offices, are the members willing to pull the pin....??

[clashcityrocker]

From what I have heard moving back to 1 in 6 is to maintain as many full time jobs as possible.

That would be a union priority and not a RM priority.
Which suggests any change will be with union blessing and not by executive action.

Talk to your Area Rep.
If the change is going to happen, it shouldn't be difficult for someone to show you the consequences of both scenarios.

[hatetheboss]

1 in 4 does not do away with full time jobs one of the 5 duties in the section gets shared and that duty holder becomes a day off cover,

Example

T1 T1
T2 T2
T3 Doc
T4 T4
T5 T5
Doc Doc
1 in 6 1 in 4

6 full time staff required for each section or Part time if wanted

[Mezza]

In my D/O the indoor duties were 1 in 4 for about 10 years. The delivery duties were 1 in 6.
The idea was that the 1 in 4 was a kind of sweetener for working full hours every day.

After the revision our DOm told the indoor duties that they would have to work 1 in 6.

This was taken to a level 3 grievance and the outcome was that it had been agreed with the Union and signed off.

We asked for a copy of this agreement as our local and area reps denied signing this off, but we have never seen it and never will, we just have to work the 1in 6 and have done for about 8 months now.

As somebody has already said, they will put through whatever they want and no matter what agreements it breaks there isn;t a thing you can do about it, because they will roll out bullshit after bullshit to cover it all up.

[She Raa]

In my D/O the indoor duties were 1 in 4 for about 10 years. The delivery duties were 1 in 6.
The idea was that the 1 in 4 was a kind of sweetener for working full hours every day.

After the revision our DOm told the indoor duties that they would have to work 1 in 6.

This was taken to a level 3 grievance and the outcome was that it had been agreed with the Union and signed off.

We asked for a copy of this agreement as our local and area reps denied signing this off, but we have never seen it and never will, we just have to work the 1in 6 and have done for about 8 months now.

As somebody has already said, they will put through whatever they want and no matter what agreements it breaks there isn;t a thing you can do about it, because they will roll out bullshit after bullshit to cover it all up.

But only if we let them!

[Mezza]

In my D/O the indoor duties were 1 in 4 for about 10 years. The delivery duties were 1 in 6.
The idea was that the 1 in 4 was a kind of sweetener for working full hours every day.

After the revision our DOm told the indoor duties that they would have to work 1 in 6.

This was taken to a level 3 grievance and the outcome was that it had been agreed with the Union and signed off.

We asked for a copy of this agreement as our local and area reps denied signing this off, but we have never seen it and never will, we just have to work the 1in 6 and have done for about 8 months now.

As somebody has already said, they will put through whatever they want and no matter what agreements it breaks there isn;t a thing you can do about it, because they will roll out bullshit after bullshit to cover it all up.

But only if we let them!

And what exactly would you suggest after a failed level 3 grievance ? Add to it nobody in our D/O would support us as we were just falling into line with them, our local and area reps couldn't give a monkeys and didn't want to get involved, So just what should we have then done?

The attitude of all those affected has changed dramatically, we used to be a helpful bunch, now we simply turn up for work on time, do whatever management want us to and go home having worked every second of our duty hours. It's not so much about rolling over and accepting things, it everyone for themselves - nobody wants to know unless it affects them. As for national or even local agreements - don't ask me for support in any union action - if you can't help me when i need you to enforce a national agreement that protects me, i'm certainly not losing any pay helping you with the next National agreement pile of shite !

[Sergeant Blast]

Yeah it's 1 in 6 in our office but for the reserves that means about 1 in 6 months! Due to being short staffed the reserves continually get screwed out of their saturday entitlement. Complained to union but nothing changes.

[Midge]

1 in 4 does not do away with full time jobs one of the 5 duties in the section gets shared and that duty holder becomes a day off cover,

Example

T1 T1
T2 T2
T3 Doc
T4 T4
T5 T5
Doc Doc
1 in 6 1 in 4

6 full time staff required for each section or Part time if wanted

Actually, that gives you 1 in 3. Going from 1 in 6 to 1 in 4 would be:

T1 T1
T2 T2
T3 T3
T4 DOC
T5 T5
DOC T6
T6 T7
T7 DOC
T8 T8
T9 T9
T10 T10
DOC DOC

Absorbing 1 out of 10 deliveries, and creating a third day off cover. No loss of duties. No loss of jobs.

[hatetheboss]

1 in 4 does not do away with full time jobs one of the 5 duties in the section gets shared and that duty holder becomes a day off cover,

Example

T1 T1
T2 T2
T3 Doc
T4 T4
T5 T5
Doc Doc
1 in 6 1 in 4

6 full time staff required for each section or Part time if wanted

Actually, that gives you 1 in 3. Going from 1 in 6 to 1 in 4 would be:

T1 T1
T2 T2
T3 T3
T4 DOC
T5 T5
DOC T6
T6 T7
T7 DOC
T8 T8
T9 T9
T10 T10
DOC DOC

Absorbing 1 out of 10 deliveries, and creating a third day off cover. No loss of duties. No loss of jobs.

You are correct Midge I am getting mixed up with 1 in 4 and 4 day week, however both ways prove no jobs need to be lost if planned right