wilful delay?

[mrb]

Any advice urgently needed please.

I will cut this story as short as possible and I am writing this on behalf of someone else.

Saturday afternoon 2pm. Arrived at last box on my round. I had the wrong key so unable to get in the box. I had no contact card. Had no network on my phone (got proof as it was the whole area and it was like this for a couple of weeks) Past experience the manager I do have the number for always turns off phone after 12ish.
Returned to office which was closed. Went home.
Monday I got the correct key for the box. Did my usual round then went straight to the box to do what I was unable to do on Saturday. As I got there my new dom was there with arms crossed. Told me to come into the office next day and i was suspended.
6 weeks off then on my return i was given 2 year suspended dismissal on record for 5 years and charged with dishonesty and wilful delay!! ?? If i had the right keys i would have delivered the dam mail! Not only that the dom caught me at the box on Monday attempting to deliver it for the second time!

Within a week I got a letter from the appeals team saying they have decided that their decision was correct and so the appeal has been rejected. THE APPEAL ISNT UNTIL JULY!!!!
Not only that they are now trying to stitch me up for leaving a packet in a post box for a week!

I also want to add they I have never received any training whatsoever in delivery. I am 19 years old and started in processing on an apprenticeship.

Arggghhhh

[louielouie]

any conduct should follow the following procedure

breach of rules or procedure - seek explaination - fact finding - formal invite (48 hrs notice) - outcome

at each stages you should be given right to have a colleagie with you and give atos welfare support.

did they follow this route

key points to your case

you showed merit going back to attempt del again

key control was poor and who gave you keys

why is unit locked whilst operations are still in flow

happy to discuss further

louielouie

[louielouie]

dont worry about appeal in july this gives you time to collate all the info you need and to bulid a good challenge.

i would challlenge

training issue
if dom knew item was there why did e not collect item, but he choose to wait for you

[mrb]

I did have fact finding interview. If any outsider was to read that interview statement they would see that there was nothing more that could have been done. At the end of the day, that mail on Saturday would not have been delivered until Monday. They said I was being dishonest....about what? I never told a single lie. How can they charge me with wilful delay of mail when I was more than willing (twice) to deliver that mail?

I did have a union rep in with me but wasnt offered any support from anyone else.

As for the keys I was told to fetch the keys myself from the office. I picked up the keys assuming they was obviously the right keys. (Apparently this is common practice to help yourself to keys).

The unit is always locked up whilst operations are in flow. In the past I have been stranded out in the middle of nowhere by myself at 8.30pm with no contact numbers, no transport, nothing! I had to phone my friend who was approx 12 miles away to come and pick me up!! Even he needed a sat nav to find me lol

Geez this is so depressing.

[mrb]

[quote="louielouie"]dont worry about appeal in july this gives you time to collate all the info you need and to bulid a good challenge.


But according to the letter I have just received they have already made their mind up. How can they write a letter telling me my appeal has been rejected and the warnings still stand - if I haven't even had the appeal hearing/meeting yet?

[74tower]

Based on my managerial experience there are a couple of issues here , one being although you intended to deliver the mail on Monday you dont mention that you informed your DOM first thing monday before going out on delivery which may lead him to believe you were trying to cover up the failure.Secondly the packet left in a box for a week ? If you was aware of it why did you not deliver it and if your DOM left it there knowingly then why would he further delay the delivery , he should be asked to explain that .

[mrb]

Based on my managerial experience there are a couple of issues here , one being although you intended to deliver the mail on Monday you dont mention that you informed your DOM first thing monday before going out on delivery which may lead him to believe you were trying to cover up the failure.Secondly the packet left in a box for a week ? If you was aware of it why did you not deliver it and if your DOM left it there knowingly then why would he further delay the delivery , he should be asked to explain that .

My dom knew I wasnt trying to cover up anything as he was waiting at the box when I got to it on Monday. Also I wouldn't call it a failure when I couldn't get in the box on Saturday to deliver it.

As for the packet left in a box. I wasnt aware of it until my dom told me about it. There was no packet!. Why had it took a week to 'find' it? Why had the driver not noticed it for a whole week? It was planted.

[fishtank]

74tower is right.
By not informing your manager at the earliest possible opportunity you have given your manager the rope of dishonesty to hang your career.
To be honest in the present climate you were lucky to escape with a suspended dismissal.
As far as the packet is concerned under what circumstances was it found?
By who?
Who else uses the boxes?
How are they tying it to you?

[DGP1]

FT is usually right in these things.

As for the appeals letter - I've heard of these before, sending out the decision before the appeal has actually taken place, keep the letter in your RM file (most of us have one with all our letters in it ) and let them know that you have the letter when the appeal actually comes up, they might drop everything, you could be lucky.


ps. Are you saying that you have to collect your own keys from a secure RLE?? If so then that's a big no no, only authorised staff allowed in the RLE.

[mrb]

74tower is right.
By not informing your manager at the earliest possible opportunity you have given your manager the rope of dishonesty to hang your career.

I couldn't contact any of them on the saturday. So when I went in on the monday I asked for the correct keys so that I could do it that day. I didn't realise it was an offence NOT to inform anyone. I have never been trained in any way. If I knew it was an offence then of course I would have informed him on the Monday.


As far as the packet is concerned under what circumstances was it found?
By who?
A driver found it. That's all I know.


Who else uses the boxes?
Other postmen and the driver who drops the mail off into the box. I'm just a relief it's not my regular round.

How are they tying it to you?

I was doing that same round the whole week. But I didn't leave any packet in there for any length of time. If I had why hadn't I or the driver noticed it?
Just to add, twice that week I spotted my dom sitting in his car. Watching me

[mrb]

FT is usually right in these things.

As for the appeals letter - I've heard of these before, sending out the decision before the appeal has actually taken place, keep the letter in your RM file (most of us have one with all our letters in it ) and let them know that you have the letter when the appeal actually comes up, they might drop everything, you could be lucky.

I wish.


ps. Are you saying that you have to collect your own keys from a secure RLE?? If so then that's a big no no, only authorised staff allowed in the RLE.

Apparently it's the norm in my office.

[louielouie]

any desicsion made of an award / enalty you can appear against thats rule of thumb when it comes down to employment law.
following the penalty given you should be given a notice period weather u r to appeal all not, if so then an appeals managers takes up your case. did you rep not tell you this, you are prob now at IT stage
i wish you luck
louielouie

[mrb]

Thanks guys. I need more than luck

[74tower]

if you have had a letter from supposedly an appeals manager or any other manager before you have had the appeal i think its safe to say it will get thrown out as your union rep can clearly demonstrate that your case was pre judged , i would personally throw it out as a manager if what you say is true.

[Gazza90000]

I have seen a case exactly like this in the past ....

First thing is .... You went to the box on Saturday and could not get in...You then tried to contact the office but your phone was down..... What additional effect did you make ? Is there an Answer Phone at the Delivery because when you did get signal or at home you could have contacted the Delivery Office. I should imagine you have P739 Cards which you could have contacted over the weekend at some point the Unit or even Contact someone else in R.M. --- This is probably the issue the Manager has because what effort did you make ? This is probably why they think you have something to hide...

You have had a seek and explanation interview , an invite to a Formal Fact Finding , a Formal Meeting to answer the charge , Notes from both interviews , Decision which include your appeal rights , a letter confirming your appeal has been passed onto the appeals Manager and then an invite with all the case papers to an Appeals Hearing by the Senior Appeals Manager as its a case of action short of dismissal. An appeal , notes of the appeal , decision from the appeal....If you have not then you can call foul on the procedure...

How did the Manager on Monday morning know you had left mail in the box ?