Accident "changed" to incident by RM

[Thunderthighs]

Trying to establish how:

An INJURY, causing pain/time off, diagnosed as Injury by GP, and also recorded as "Industrial Accident" by Dept Work Pension/DSS, can be categorised an
An "Incident" by RM? ( Makes absolutely NO SENSE to any normal person at all...)

Obviously this would ensure that the National Agreements "injured on duty/AOD" paragraph 8, is then not adhered to, making any Accidents recordable as Incidents and leading to Stages. Accident/Injury was work-related, with Erica report confirming this, with aod written next to the date etc.

This moving-of-the-goalpost is surely NOT acceptable.

So...gonna be a tooth and nail fight, to get the to Reassess their decision.
( For Gawd's sake, it's even CALLED The ACCIDENT investigation Unit, NOT Incident...!)

How can they be allowed to re-categorise anything they want. Soon a head-crash causing death will be a "Bumper Displacement Occurance, resulting in Non-Life incident."

[AnotherLimey]

Managers have 10 targets, two of which apply to you, accident and sickness, they will do whatever they can do to meet thier target and bonus as a result, shame on them

[Thunderthighs]

Ok, I get that, but...

How can they rough-ride over Dept Work Pension rules, reg, guidelines which essentially are Employment LAW???

This CANNOT be the case? Who ensures they comply with Legislation? Otherwise Anarchy rules...
There HAS to be an organisation, governing body or legal ombdudsman of some sort?

Yep, CWU gonna be my first point of contact asap...so assume it can be nipped in the bud.

They've gotta keep inline surely?

[La Poste]

I don't know the ins and ous of your case but as far as conduct code cases go before you resort to any sort of legal remedy you haveto exhaust the internal proceedure first.
This seems to be similar to what is happening to you.
All I can say is think of the long term as in this may end up in court and plan accordingly, the more Royal mail disregard health and safety proceedure the worse they will look in the long run so in effect they are playing into your hands.
Don't take it personally.
Do treat it as a game.
Unfortunately it seems you have more information and knowledge at your finger tips due to your persistant attitude, I say unfortunately because it means you are going to find it hard to get good advice from people because you allready know more than them.
keep records of everything and start to rely on the written word rather than the spoken.
The appeal stage seems to be where managers with brains appear, the early stages of an investigation are usually a complete joke.
Don't get stressed just build your case.
This all applies to conduct code issues of which I have some experience, I hope this may help you in yours, to be honest you will end up teaching us all a lesson the way you are going, you are way ahead.
You are in a strong position with anything that involves health and safety because The Health and Safety at Work Act states the employer has a legal duty to take care of your health and safety at work whereas with bullying at work there is in effect nothing illegal about it, harassment comes under separate legislation.
Maybe this is why they are trying so hard to wriggle out of your problem because if they break the Health and Safety at Work Act they break the law and can be taken to court, I mean managers PERSONALLY can be taken to court and held PERSONALLY liable, it is a criminal offence.
Maybe they have allready broken the Health and Safety at Work Act, it's a good area to do some research.
Just my pennies worth of thought.

[Thunderthighs]

La Poste...You've given me loads of food for thought.

And like your picture shows, " Just like that!"

Thanks, matey.

[banddy]

Trying to establish how:

An INJURY, causing pain/time off, diagnosed as Injury by GP, and also recorded as "Industrial Accident" by Dept Work Pension/DSS, can be categorised an
An "Incident" by RM? ( Makes absolutely NO SENSE to any normal person at all...)

Obviously this would ensure that the National Agreements "injured on duty/AOD" paragraph 8, is then not adhered to, making any Accidents recordable as Incidents and leading to Stages. Accident/Injury was work-related, with Erica report confirming this, with aod written next to the date etc.

This moving-of-the-goalpost is surely NOT acceptable.

So...gonna be a tooth and nail fight, to get the to Reassess their decision.
( For Gawd's sake, it's even CALLED The ACCIDENT investigation Unit, NOT Incident...!)

How can they be allowed to re-categorise anything they want. Soon a head-crash causing death will be a "Bumper Displacement Occurance, resulting in Non-Life incident."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i was told the "accident" part is misleading.
if you look at the HSE website, they don't mention accidents as such. they deal with injuries.
was the injury sustained at work, carrying out your work duties, during the course of your employment?

has a risk assessment been carried out?
was training given to combat the possible risks?

the DWP want to know if you were injured during the course of your employment and will register whether or not it was "an industrial injury" or if you like - an accident at work. this is for benefit purposes.
so if you want it classed as an accident at work - you should inform the DWP of the details and ask them if they accept it as an accident at work.

join the CWU and ask for an LS3 form - the LS3 is the document used to pursue compensation for the injuries sustained at work.

hope this is of help

[Thunderthighs]

LS3 going in, reluctantly.
GP, Dept WORK and Pensions, CWU Reps, CWU Legal Dept, ALL saying it was an "Accident."

Just looked accident and incident up in Dictionary...
Incident = an occrrance. Accident = involves injury etc, so...

If Stage 2 issued - more than likely - Grieveance going in.
CWU Rep gonna see manager who was a "witness" after the event.
Other Reg. Manager, who seems to be pulling my managers strings, has RESIGNED...

Great, causes loadda crap for everyone, then buggers off.
Bloody typical!

[Thunderthighs]

UPDATE: Was told today that...As part of the "2010 AGREEMENT", Royal Mail AGREED to Honour all aspects of previous Deals/Negotiations.
This includes Paragraph 8 which basically states: If accident/injured on DUTY, this will normally be disregarded - in terms of any Stage warnings.


Same person stated they would contact the Manager concerned, to investigate why they altered Accident to Incident, when there is a huge amount af
evidence to the contrary.

The Plot Thickens...

[andy2007]

This could be usefull for you: http://www.hse.gov.uk/riddor/guidance.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If it needs to be reported via RIDDOR, then even if they call it an "incident" (as happens in a lot of the literature anyway), its still what most people mean when they refer to an accident. I don't know whether this will help. But at least it's anothger angle for you to use, to try to get justice for yourself.

[Thunderthighs]

Thanks Andy.
Yep, 3 day injury under RIDDOR seems to be the one that fits.
2 weeks sickness, ( well-over 3 days ) totally fits.

So, they can argue it's an Incident, but if an Injury is caused, this should automatically be an ACCIDENT!

Justice sounds nice, but...FAIRNESS, adherence to Employment Law, CWU Agreements and Common Sense is the key.
RM's policy of utilising words/semantics to serve their own purpose, ie, Keeping recorded sickness levels down, is not acceptable.

[La Poste]

Justice sounds nice, but...FAIRNESS, adherence to Employment Law, CWU Agreements and Common Sense is the key.
RM's policy of utilising words/semantics to serve their own purpose, ie, Keeping recorded sickness levels down, is not acceptable.

And you've caught them out on everything they've tried so far.
Well done.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

question for you,

have you been issued a stage warning due to this event?

or are they saying that your abscence level has triggered an interview?

[Thunderthighs]

Interview with manager/CWU rep recently, and VERY STRONGLY intimated that it would more than likely be issued.

Reason being, The Incident not Accident classification was emphasised more than once!

Rep agreed, be prepared for the worst. But..as eejit who was pulling the strings has gone, maybe just maybe, the attitude will change.

This week will see...

[andy2007]

Good luck.

[Stormproof]

Intimidated by a manager in an interview......never
I was told if I have to go and see the DOM regarding sickness again I would be straight out the door. I would of taken him to an ET, that'll look good, employee sacked for having an AOD and backed up by DWP ......f***ing idiots!