SENT HOME OWING 4 HOURS

[the dragon]

Hello from very snowy north Wales. My RDO today but been told of the following problem from a colleague (our rep is on annual leave.) Staff went in today and weather obviously very bad but IPS was done and prep. was started. The DOM made the sensible decision of telling everyone that they would not be going out on delivery .He then went on to tell them that they would work for four hours, only know about full-time staff,and could then go home.Here is the crunch...they were then told that they would "OWE" the company 4 hours to make up the 8 hour day!! They didnt know if he could do it but accepted it , reluctantly Can anyone confirm if they can do this , as , to me, the whole situation isnt right. Any help would be very welcome, probably to late this time around but would really like to know the official CWU view on this...thanks in advance

[Pinky 1]

No, i'll think you'll find this is rubbish.
The most he could claw back, if he wanted to the miserable git, is 30 minutes under the flexability agreement.
And no, it's not too late to raise this with him either ........

[hantsman]

Since people are at work already they should just stay there and work to their time inside. However expect management not to like it

[HootyMacBoob]

SEVERE WEATHER CONDITIONS – PAY & MODERNISATION AGREEMENT

Dear Colleague

SEVERE WEATHER CONDITIONS – PAY & MODERNISATION AGREEMENT

CWU HQ are receiving numerous reports and enquiries that as a result of the severe weather conditions, Royal Mail Managers are attempting to insist that in cases where our members are being sent home early from work due to unsafe conditions for delivery, collections, road services etc, the Pay & Modernisation Agreement and in particular the flexibility clause within that agreement, is applicable.

There is no provision within the Pay & Modernisation Agreement for the clawback of any time as a result of what is tantamount to an 'act of God' i.e. the severe weather conditions that the UK is currently experiencing.

We have had further reports that some Managers are attempting to have our members take annual leave, make good the time, or even in some cases Special Leave 'C' (unpaid) where they could not attend work through no fault of their own. Once again, our representatives should be clear that this has not been agreed with the Postal Department at CWU HQ.

Any enquiries should be addressed to the DGS (P) Department quoting reference number 60000.

Yours sincerely

Dave Ward
Deputy General Secretary (P)

Dear Colleague,

RE: Severe Weather Conditions – Pay & Modernisation Agreement

Since the publication of LtB 95/2009, the Postal Department has received a number of enquiries.

It appears that in some areas management are attempting to introduce unagreed adjustments to hours or forcing individuals to take unpaid or annual leave when they were unable to attend work due to the weather conditions. Some managers are claiming to justify this approach by quoting from a document entitled “Severe Weather Operating Manual for use in Royal Mail”. This is an unagreed management document. Furthermore there is no provision within the Pay and Modernisation Agreement for clawback of hours as a result of what is tantamount to an ‘act of God’.

Each individual case should be looked at according to its merits and the local weather conditions. Any problems should be taken through the Industrial Relations Framework. During this time the status quo should remain.

Any enquiries regarding this LtB please contact the DGS (P) Department quoting reference number 60000.

Yours sincerely

Dave Ward
Deputy General Secretary (P)

[Pinky 1]

Thank You Hooty ...

[brothermagrew]

Hooty your an Act of God Respect for this info

[the dragon]

A big thank-you Hooty.Didnt think that this would have been agreed with CWU !!!. I will inform our rep. and im sure he will be very be very interested. Just spoken to another colleague of mine and told him of the CWU letter and he is under the impression that because the staff accepted this decision they will have to accept it this time around, ie the staff all left 4 hours early and therfore have forfieted any comeback. Can you give me answer to that..I still dont think this is right, as they were initially misinformed thanks again.

[HootyMacBoob]

A big thank-you Hooty.Didnt think that this would have been agreed with CWU !!!. I will inform our rep. and im sure he will be very be very interested. Just spoken to another colleague of mine and told him of the CWU letter and he is under the impression that because the staff accepted this decision they will have to accept it this time around, ie the staff all left 4 hours early and therfore have forfieted any comeback. Can you give me answer to that..I still dont think this is right, as they were initially misinformed thanks again.

You cannot be forced to work overtime, you do not owe Royal Mail 4 hours,there is no agreement on conditioned hours, you are contracted to work a set amount of hours per day.Sounds like the manager is just chancing his/her arm. Any enquiries should be addressed to the DGS (P) Department quoting reference number 60000.

[POSTMAN]

It's in the stickie in this forum,along with the Severe Weather thingy...

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... ad#p228688" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And...

The most he could claw back, if he wanted to the miserable git, is 30 minutes under the flexability agreement.

He can't do that either.

[banner18]

You should have just sat in the office until your shift ends. You are then available for work as contracted. If there is no work it is not your problem. By going home you have tacitly agreed to what your DOM has said. I wouldn't have gone home until the clause was removed, simple as that. Legally, RM cannot claw this time back because it would involve enforced overtime. I would have avoided this battle though by not agreeing at the time.

[whitemoor66]

One of the major differences in the status of being an employee and being self employed, is that if an employee goes into work for an scheduled eight hour attendence and the employer cannot find you enough work to fill the hours (For whatever reason,) you will still be paid for the eight hours, regardless of if you are allowed to go home early. If RM ( Or any other company )contracted a self employed person to do a job and there wasn't enough work, or no work, they would be within their rights to send the self employed person away. Also if the self employed person agreed to accept and complete a job, for a previously agreed rate and failed to complete the work in the specified time, he would need to complete the unfinished/unrectified work in his own time/cost . Don't let me put ideas into their heads.

[the dragon]

Thanks guys for all your advice/help.My office union rep. got an e-mail through from our area rep. in Chester today and things are in hand to " remedy" the situation.Needless to say that our DOM will be informed tomorrow

[islfor]

are you a denbighshire office ?

[the dragon]

are you a denbighshire office ?

No, CH , flintshire, why do you ask?