Can I be dismissed when........

[Sci_Dog]

.....I am off work with 100% 'work related stress'?

There is a petty conduct case (see previous posts) against me in which I have had my fact finding interview with my local manager. I have also had my fact finding interview with the senior manager. I received a letter today informing me that the senior manager had made his decision on the case. I've now been invited to a face to face meeting on Thursday 3rd December (my birthday! Nice, eh? LoL) to hear the outcome and the reasons for it.

However I have a sick line from my doctor which runs until 14th of Decemeber. The reason on this line is clearly stated as 'stress at work'.

If my senior manager has made the decision to dismiss me, can he do it whilst I'm off sick?

Definite and 100% accurate replies much appreciated. No maybes or 'I don't think they can' replies please. Much appreciated.

Any links to verify your posts are much appreciated. Whether it be from Royal Mail, CWU or a government website.

My job is relying on the outcome of this decision.

Thanks for reading troops.

Sci_Dog

[norbert]

you could argue that being " invited " to a meeting - contributes to the stress and RM have a duty of care as laughable as it sounds .

The News of the World had to pay out £800,000 in a tribunal for bullying . That sacked journalist when off sick with work related stress was bombarded with emails , calls and visits from Senior Management . His Doctor's view was that he must be removed from the source of stress .

I'd check if the Union would sanction a no cooperation policy . There was a case when the Union and this lad's doctor said he must not cooperate in any way with RM . RM were suggesting that the CofC was done by post .

[Sci_Dog]

I can't file any bullying complaints until there is some sort of closure on this conduct case.

Hence me asking can I be dismissed whilst being off sick.

Thanks for your reply Norbert but didn't really answer my question.

[coxie]

regarding your fact finding interview if he has decided to sack you and you are off work sick he can send you a letter with his decision if you are unable to attend a meeting. It is up to him whether he does that or decideds to wait till you return

[Exrep]

Dude ive gone through the conduct code twice now and cant find anythink in there im now looking through the way forward agreement and SDD agreement.

Sorry not to have an answer for you yet.

[Sci_Dog]

regarding your fact finding interview if he has decided to sack you and you are off work sick he can send you a letter with his decision if you are unable to attend a meeting. It is up to him whether he does that or decideds to wait till you return

Hello Coxie,

This is what the letter I received this morning clearly states matey....word for word....

Dear Mr Sci_Dog

Futher to our interview regarding the charge of:

1. Intentional Delay of Mail
2. Putting the USO at rick
3. Causing Additional Expense to the Business

I am now in a position to make a decision on the case. I would like to give this to you on a face-to-face basis and explain the reasons for making the decision.

You should attend the meeting with me on Thursday 3rd December 2009 at 0900 at XXXXXXXXX Delivery Office.

You may be accompanied at the meeting by your trade union representative or work colleague from within Royal Mail Group plc.

Please could you sign and return to me the reply slip below confirming you will attend the interview. An addressed enevelope is provided for this purpose.

Yours sincerely

XXXXX XXXXXX

[Sci_Dog]

regarding your fact finding interview if he has decided to sack you and you are off work sick he can send you a letter with his decision if you are unable to attend a meeting. It is up to him whether he does that or decideds to wait till you return

I have no problems attending the interview just would like to know can I be dismissed whilst being off sick.

[Sci_Dog]

Dude ive gone through the conduct code twice now and cant find anythink in there im now looking through the way forward agreement and SDD agreement.

Sorry not to have an answer for you yet.

Thanks matey for help matey. I personally thought it would be against the law to dismiss someone whilst they were off sick. Hopefully you'll find some info to point me in the right direction.

[POSTMAN]

What a strange thing,was having a conversation with my mother in law about 10 mins ago about this as my sister is off work with stress.

Anyway,as far as the law goes i dont think that you can be legally sacked for being off work with stress.
Try the google link and see what comes up.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en-GB ... 5&ie=UTF-8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Exrep]

Found it for you paragraph 4.6 of the conduct code sorry for my earlier post saying it wasnt in there i will copy and paste it for you

http://www.cwu.org/assets/_files/docume ... e_proc.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

OR

http://www.cwu.org/11586/agreements.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; scroll down to 1998

[TrueBlueTerrier]

8. STAFF ON SICK LEAVE
Where an employee is off sick and cannot attend for interview at any of the formal stages, he/she will be given the opportunity to put forward his/her case in writing, within 7 days, and would be free to enlist support from the relevant union representative for that location or a friend from the same location in drafting his/her case for submission. If the opportunity is declined, the case would be processed in the normal way.

Source: Attendance Procedure http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 8&p=123633" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[fishtank]

The simple answer Sci-Dog is yes unfotunately however it is unlikely.This is from ACAS.It is meant for attendance procedures but legally it's the same position.


Can I dismiss an employee while on long-term sickness? Only as a last resort once all other options have been considered.
Before making a decision, think about all the factors mentioned earlier – such as reasonable adjustment, flexible working, job design, a phased return to work, etc.
You may have to satisfy an employment tribunal as to the fairness of your decision. The Acas Code of Practice: Disciplinary and grievance procedures sets out principles for handling disciplinary and grievance situations in the workplace. Employment tribunals are legally required to take the Code into account when considering relevant
cases.

[Sci_Dog]

What a strange thing,was having a conversation with my mother in law about 10 mins ago about this as my sister is off work with stress.

Anyway,as far as the law goes i dont think that you can be legally sacked for being off work with stress.
Try the google link and see what comes up.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en-GB ... 5&ie=UTF-8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hello Postman. You state that you don't think I can be legally sacked for being off work with stress. However if I'm off sick with stress can I be sacked for other reasons? And can I be sacked whilst being off sick?

[Sci_Dog]

8. STAFF ON SICK LEAVE
Where an employee is off sick and cannot attend for interview at any of the formal stages, he/she will be given the opportunity to put forward his/her case in writing, within 7 days, and would be free to enlist support from the relevant union representative for that location or a friend from the same location in drafting his/her case for submission. If the opportunity is declined, the case would be processed in the normal way.

Source: Attendance Procedure http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 8&p=123633" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hello TrueBlueTerrier. I have no issues attending the interview. My main concern is, can I be dismissed from work if the outcome of a (petty) conduct case goes against me when I'm off work sick?

[General Mannerheim]

If you are on sick leave or go on sick leave, it is unreasonable for an employer to force you to attend a displinary or grievance meeting except with medical advice from a specialist. Also an employer has to be careful that illness is not due to a work incident which breaches health and safety rules or in your case brought on by a work related conduct case, or to an illness that is covered under the disability discrimination act.

A tip,get your doctor to write this on a sick note..."unable to attend any workplace meetings"
If your doctor writes something like this on your sick note it is very hard for them to hold any disciplinary meetings as doing so requires your attendance (for fair play - whatever that is), and to do so leaves them open to legal action if they knowingly do something that damages your health. Although it is possible that they will ignore it, even most poor employers will back off, at least for a time.