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2 IN A VAN AGAIN?

Postal workers discussion forum. Discuss the day to day life in a Blue Shirt.
HTPostman
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 1507
Joined: 01 Sep 2008, 23:53
Gender: Male

2 IN A VAN AGAIN?

Post by HTPostman »

toonshola wrote:
Cucumber wrote:
HTPostman wrote:
toonshola wrote:
2yearpostie wrote:
citypostie wrote:If the single vans duties are staying in much longer they need to have a radical think about the job. The split shifts could work if the later starts are covered by part time staff.
I read that as,'Lets throw the part time staff under the bus again because us full timers dont want to change how we work, force the part timers into doing something they dont want to do'
Nailed it. Been at Royal Mail 10 years and still a part timer. And what I have learned is there are two different class of posties. The full time staff who seem to think because they have done the amazing achievement of simply hanging around long enough in a job that they can basically do what they want and generally run the office. They finish early frequently and never pay the time back. The really senior full timers have cushy single van delivery’s that need a good hour added onto them and they know it. If a part timer dares to finish before them then all hell breaks loose.
Then there is us second class citizens the part time staff. We have to pay any rare early finishes back under the guise of ‘flexibility’. Moved from pillar to post on all the crap delivery’s none of the full timers would touch. Frequently turn up at work passing the full timers heading out onto their delivery to find our frames are half prepped and expected to complete in the same time.
If I ever get lucky enough to be made up to full time in the distant future I’ll try my best not to forget just how shite it is being a part timer at Royal Mail.
Not going to respond to each point as I’ve made my thoughts known before.

But....

What surprises me is how defensive senior staff get. You know, if you cover their round and get back 10 minutes before they do, you’re ‘killing the job’ or if you don’t sign for a special for farmer Giles who’s always in the fields you’re ‘messing up their christmas tips’ for them.

I’ve worked in some tough industries - construction to name one - and while the senior staff expected a bit more respect and got it, there was never this constant looking down and ‘we’ve all had to go through this, so should you’ attitude.

Seniority has seen me moved from a round when I’d tied up and loaded up the van and then was put on an unprepped round. I’ve had people push in front of me in the queue for the specials because they have seniority. It is an utter joke. Like you, I resolve to never treat people like this if I’m ever made up to FT. I already take the time to help new starters (those who are below me in the chuffing seniority game) and give them pointers, as the coaching process is laughable.

Anyway, I can see a point in the near future where our new CEO wises up and dangles a carrot in the direction of part timers in exchange for votes. You can’t kick a huge percentage of the (PT) workforce down then be surprised when they act against the wishes of the rest.

Before I get the ‘if you don’t like it leave’ brigade, I don’t like my job, I love it and actually think overall management treat me better and more fairer than some of the more senior staff. And that’s saying something.

I've been meaning to type something like that for a while now - I think it's inevitable that there will come some sort of vote on the ways of working and it will be firmly aimed at part time staff. For far too long part time staff have been looked upon as just a way of getting the vote that's wanted to protect the terms and working conditions of others.
If they ever offered to up my contract to full time I must admit I would probably vote yes with whatever new working practices they want to bring in. 10 years and still part time absolutely sick of waiting and the union appear to do very little to help us part timers get our contracts up even though the work is clearly there.
Make the deliveries longer, make us work later, track us, bring in clock in machines. I’ll take all that if it means full time and I bet most the part timers would do the same.
In my DO of 180 staff I estimate 30 or so are PT and there’s only 1 I can think of who will only work his hours and refuses to go over. Most of us (some voluntarily - me included) start at 1pm so you have an ever growing chunk of the workforce who are flexible, willing to start late and finish late, don’t ghost, don’t argue for 20mins about 10mins of lapsing.

I can guarantee 99% of us could not reach for a pen quick enough if we were offered a contract with more basic hours regardless of start time, workload and clocking in machines. Agree (finally!) to backdate our holiday pay for the last few years which puts a few thousand in each of our pockets (they’ll have to do this anyway at some point) and suddenly RM at the stroke of a brush have a good 25% of the workforce motivated and on their side, most of them at the younger end too.

Factor in the usual 20% of those who can’t be bothered to vote anyway and things can turn quickly.

Once again to any FT staff reading, I have nothing against you personally, am I jealous? Possibly. It’s more the fact I’ve been screwed over a few times by management, never by my PT colleagues but countless times by FT.

Today was a classic example...tracked packets for his side were wedged in the corner of the my side of the frame (where you normally put your cuppa), all the recorded letters for his side mysteriously ended up at the back of my mech which he was meant to put in and didn’t. When I finished at 5.30pm I checked the sign in sheet, he started at 7 and signed out at 12.55, more than 2 hours early.

I’d love nothing more than for us all to work together and look out for each other. Just can’t see it ever happening.
The day is gonna come when we’re all gonna have to testify.

526
2yearpostie
Posts: 1839
Joined: 03 Mar 2020, 15:36
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2 IN A VAN AGAIN?

Post by 2yearpostie »

Strange that in my office of 35,we have just 6 full timers, guess which ones argue the most wont cover other jobs and get nasty if they have to stay past 1;30pm?
clashcityrocker
Posts: 16710
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Location: strummerville

2 IN A VAN AGAIN?

Post by clashcityrocker »

citypostie wrote:Well all you part timers itching to get a vote on shafting full timers better hope that you've got enough time in if royal mail get the go ahead to scrap Saturday deliveries. That's 20000 jobs gone (mainly part timer cover duties).
If you honestly believe that part time jobs are at risk then you haven't been working for the same RM as me for the past 20 years.
Full time jobs are and have been under threat by the increases in mechanisation and increases in productivity.
Tens of thousands of full time jobs have gone and will continue to go.

The 20 000 figure you quote is a fictitious number to start with. But any job losses will not be part time.
The increase in parcels should mean more job opportunities.
The societies of consumption and squandering of material resources are incompatible with the idea of economic growth and a clean planet.
citypostie
Posts: 895
Joined: 08 Apr 2009, 19:42
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2 IN A VAN AGAIN?

Post by citypostie »

clashcityrocker wrote:
citypostie wrote:Well all you part timers itching to get a vote on shafting full timers better hope that you've got enough time in if royal mail get the go ahead to scrap Saturday deliveries. That's 20000 jobs gone (mainly part timer cover duties).
If you honestly believe that part time jobs are at risk then you haven't been working for the same RM as me for the past 20 years.
Full time jobs are and have been under threat by the increases in mechanisation and increases in productivity.
Tens of thousands of full time jobs have gone and will continue to go.

The 20 000 figure you quote is a fictitious number to start with. But any job losses will not be part time.
The increase in parcels should mean more job opportunities.
No I get that they want rid of full time jobs, the ones I've seen leave have been replaced by part timers and the indoor work absorbed by the ones left. I'm actually surprised that a full timer has just left at our place and they are actually advertising his delivery and it's still full time! I suppose between people leaving naturally and not renewing contracts for probationary staff they could soon get rid of the numbers they want. I've done over 25 years now so I know how royal mail works but when I started on 16 hours and got shafted regularly I didn't bleat about it constantly and blame people who'd been here for years. I always got the last pick for holidays because it was on seniority , always got more added to my duty in revisions because the senior blokes did them with the manager and there wasn't a repick, not that it would have helped me anyway! And I'd get the same overtime payment as someone else but my part of the delivery always looked bigger. Who's fault was that? The senior blokes or the ones letting it happen?
Rommagic
Posts: 1518
Joined: 10 Sep 2007, 16:52

2 IN A VAN AGAIN?

Post by Rommagic »

With the government saying people have too wear facemask on public transport on the 15th June will royal mail say the same?.
steve1873
Posts: 800
Joined: 08 Oct 2007, 13:55

2 IN A VAN AGAIN?

Post by steve1873 »

So... this has gone wildly off topic!
Chelseablue
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2 IN A VAN AGAIN?

Post by Chelseablue »

Thousands of people protesting all over the world mostly not social distancing , means well be in a bad way for a good while yet .
Woody Guthrie
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2 IN A VAN AGAIN?

Post by Woody Guthrie »

Chelseablue wrote:Thousands of people protesting all over the world mostly not social distancing , means well be in a bad way for a good while yet .
When you have thousands flocking to the beach first chance they get, people barging into you in the supermarket and barbecues every night with half the street invited protests are the least of your problems.

Still it will give the tabloids and politicians someone to blame.
Only dead fish follow the current
Cucumber
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2 IN A VAN AGAIN?

Post by Cucumber »

Rommagic wrote:With the government saying people have too wear facemask on public transport on the 15th June will royal mail say the same?.
I don't follow - do you mean RM will make staff wear masks in offices?
Celgar
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2 IN A VAN AGAIN?

Post by Celgar »

Cucumber wrote:
Rommagic wrote:With the government saying people have too wear facemask on public transport on the 15th June will royal mail say the same?.
I don't follow - do you mean RM will make staff wear masks in offices?
A method to stop the social distancing would be for everyone to wear 'face coverings' when they are not at home. To be honest if this isn't done by the end of June the unemployment rate in the UK will go through the roof and a lot of businesses will go bust.
The views I express here are mine alone and do not represent the views of Royal Mail Group.
SpacePhoenix
MAIL CENTRES/PROCESSING
Posts: 12195
Joined: 12 Nov 2008, 17:03
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2 IN A VAN AGAIN?

Post by SpacePhoenix »

Celgar wrote:
Cucumber wrote:
Rommagic wrote:With the government saying people have too wear facemask on public transport on the 15th June will royal mail say the same?.
I don't follow - do you mean RM will make staff wear masks in offices?
A method to stop the social distancing would be for everyone to wear 'face coverings' when they are not at home. To be honest if this isn't done by the end of June the unemployment rate in the UK will go through the roof and a lot of businesses will go bust.
I think that wearing a mask outside of the home at all times will probably be made mandatory at some point within the next month. Don't know how they'll handle cafes and restaurants where you obviously have to take the mask off to eat and drink.
Celgar
Posts: 2795
Joined: 01 Nov 2017, 17:11
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2 IN A VAN AGAIN?

Post by Celgar »

HTPostman wrote:
citypostie wrote:Well all you part timers itching to get a vote on shafting full timers better hope that you've got enough time in if royal mail get the go ahead to scrap Saturday deliveries. That's 20000 jobs gone (mainly part timer cover duties). Let's hope all the horrible full timers don't think yes why not I'll keep my job and have a Monday to Friday job. The last week's with Saturday parcel deliveries showed how it will go, the cover delivery staff in my office where moved onto different duties or sent to other offices if nothing was available so the duty holder(part time and full time) could work Monday to Friday. If it was a permanent thing those cover duties are gone. Some of you full timer haters might be wanting support in Industrial action to save your job if you haven't been here long, good luck with that
Don’t think anyone is itching but it’s inevitable that at some point top management will target a huge chunk of the workforce that way. They can’t constantly fight ballot after ballot, instead they’ll throw not just a carrot but a whole damn field of them at PT staff which I estimate is about 25% of the workforce. Coupled with the usual 25% not bothering to vote and suddenly any vote gets closer to 50:50.

I do not dislike FT staff, I get on with most of them, go on nights out with them and if it was PT staff talking down to me and screwing me over I’d have the same gripes.

As for getting rid of staff and cover duties, I don’t think low cost 25 hour flexible PT staff have too much to worry about, it’s those on 35+ hour contracts who will spend 20 mins arguing about taking 10mins lapsing. Also, I’ve asked this before and not had an answer; if cover and reserve duties become non existent, who will do the round when Joe Bloggs is on his annual leave?
If RMs plans come to fruition then its the cover staff for days off that will no longer be needed. The duties to cover the annual leave slots will obviously have to be retained. Given that there are staff shortages in most offices - even our small office has two full time duties vacant at the moment - there would be opportunities for those cover staff to move to other duties and not have to leave.
The views I express here are mine alone and do not represent the views of Royal Mail Group.
Woody Guthrie
Posts: 5166
Joined: 29 Sep 2018, 20:47
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2 IN A VAN AGAIN?

Post by Woody Guthrie »

If RMs plans come to fruition then its the cover staff for days off that will no longer be needed.
I think this is where people get confused. It's the duties that will not be needed and duties don't 'belong' to anyone.

There are no cover staff, no annual leave staff nor any duty holder staff. The duties all belong to the business.

All we have is staff so the only argument is whether it would be compulsory redundancies or voluntary redundancies.

Royal Mail has a big problem with compulsory redundancies which is why they're unlikely to use them unless the company was in a really desperate place.
Only dead fish follow the current
walkthewalk
Posts: 220
Joined: 29 Mar 2011, 12:37
Gender: Male

2 IN A VAN AGAIN?

Post by walkthewalk »

Woody Guthrie wrote:
If RMs plans come to fruition then its the cover staff for days off that will no longer be needed.
I think this is where people get confused. It's the duties that will not be needed and duties don't 'belong' to anyone.

There are no cover staff, no annual leave staff nor any duty holder staff. The duties all belong to the business.

All we have is staff so the only argument is whether it would be compulsory redundancies or voluntary redundancies.

Royal Mail has a big problem with compulsory redundancies which is why they're unlikely to use them unless the company was in a really desperate place.

I cannot see RM giving out redundancies, they will just bide their time and squeeze staff out with ridiculous and unachievable jobs.
clashcityrocker
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2 IN A VAN AGAIN?

Post by clashcityrocker »

walkthewalk wrote: I cannot see RM giving out redundancies, they will just bide their time
That assumes they have time on their side. I'm not convinced.
People aren't going to be squeezed out if there is nowhere else to go.
When is the next financial report due?
The societies of consumption and squandering of material resources are incompatible with the idea of economic growth and a clean planet.