ANNOUNCEMENT : ALL OF ROYAL MAIL'S EMPLOYMENT POLICIES (AGREEMENTS) AT A GLANCE (Updated 2021)... HERE

ANNOUNCEMENT : PLEASE BE AWARE WE ARE NOT ON FACEBOOK AT ALL!

Royal Mail in EU referendum

Postal workers discussion forum. Discuss the day to day life in a Blue Shirt.
NWpostie
Posts: 3620
Joined: 04 Aug 2007, 17:32
Gender: Male
Location: Sector 001 Borg Collective, 6 o f 9

Royal Mail in EU referendum

Post by NWpostie »

Danelectro wrote:
Tman wrote:Despite that rather strange allegation, would you rather have seen Ireland collapse into financial chaos (with all that entails) then?
Strange allegation?I presume you mean London. Something like half of Irelands young people had to leave to find work elsewhere and are you not complaining about immigration? Iceland with far worse financial situation knocked back the IMF deal that Ireland took and got a better one and also had the balls to lock up those responsible.
Iceland knocked back the deal because of strings attached with collapse of Icesave and Glitnir bank, reimbursing the savers from the UK and Holland was one of the conditions, the Icelandic government only reimbursed Icelanders shutting out everyone else, this saving scheme was approved and regulated by Icelandic financial authorities and received tax receipts of foreign earnings.
Locking up the responsible people was a damage limitation exercise and Icelandic prison are not exactly Alcatraz more a holiday camp.

Dunno about the better deal but Iceland had been shut out of the financial market because of it.

It's not the first time Iceland was guilty of such duplicity, they broke agreements to enforce fishing limit, they extended their fishing boundaries every time leading to a cod war.

"Never trust an Icelander"
Six of Nine loves Seven of Nine, together in Electric Dreams.
Danelectro
Posts: 1058
Joined: 13 Apr 2008, 01:02

Royal Mail in EU referendum

Post by Danelectro »

NWpostie wrote:


Deficit was Labour's legacy and that famous treasury note "There's no money left, good luck"

If there was no money left where did the cash we loaned to Ireland come from?The magic of London?

I don't see what a politically motivated claim about the city and tories has to do with the Euro crisis in Europe.

Well the Bojos of the world will bang on a bout how important the City of London is to the economy and how it is THE world financial centre and you saying that it has no influence on the Euro and Europe?

Though I'm sure we can fully agree on one thing in the event of an OUT vote and that is Her Majesty the Queen and Prince Philip most be forced to apply for citizenship from Germany and Greece.After all its only fair that we should judge if they have the skills we need.
Tman
Posts: 4146
Joined: 21 Oct 2007, 09:57

Royal Mail in EU referendum

Post by Tman »

Yeah, why not. Of course, that will apply to each and every second/third/fourth generation immigrant, too?
fishtank
Posts: 19732
Joined: 28 Sep 2007, 17:22
Gender: Male

Royal Mail in EU referendum

Post by fishtank »

A deficit is not by definition a legacy, it's a single year accounting figure, money in/money out...that kind of thing. At the beginning of each financial year the deficit is zero, now public and private debt is a legacy, it doesn't go away unless you pay it off and it incurs interest which affects the deficit, I do wish people would not confuse the two. What the Tories have done with public debt since 2010 makes the Labour party look like fiscal geniuses.
good times, bad times you know I've had my share
Danelectro
Posts: 1058
Joined: 13 Apr 2008, 01:02

Royal Mail in EU referendum

Post by Danelectro »

Tman wrote:Yeah, why not. Of course, that will apply to each and every second/third/fourth generation immigrant,
too?
Im sure you got the figures to hand so how much immigrants does the UK need to send back to achieve your desired utopian affect which involves no other radical change other than leaving the EU?
fishtank
Posts: 19732
Joined: 28 Sep 2007, 17:22
Gender: Male

Royal Mail in EU referendum

Post by fishtank »

On the topic of immigration has any party likely to have any grip on power said they will stop economic migration if we vote to leave the EU?
It's the showstopper issue, you would think somebody would have thrown their hat in the ring. Of course the backlash from the business world would be immense and the behind the scenes lobbying would be viscous, you would have to have nuts of steel and a party that could withstand the withdrawal of "donations"....

Anybody?
Leaving the EU doesn't necessarily mean the end of economic migrants, especially if it suits those in power to have them here.
good times, bad times you know I've had my share
Tman
Posts: 4146
Joined: 21 Oct 2007, 09:57

Royal Mail in EU referendum

Post by Tman »

Danelectro wrote:
Tman wrote:Yeah, why not. Of course, that will apply to each and every second/third/fourth generation immigrant,
too?
Im sure you got the figures to hand so how much immigrants does the UK need to send back to achieve your desired utopian affect which involves no other radical change other than leaving the EU?
Who's said anything about sending anyone back anywhere...well, other than you anyway?
You do post some disjointed nonsense.
Tman
Posts: 4146
Joined: 21 Oct 2007, 09:57

Royal Mail in EU referendum

Post by Tman »

fishtank wrote:On the topic of immigration has any party likely to have any grip on power said they will stop economic migration if we vote to leave the EU?
It's the showstopper issue, you would think somebody would have thrown their hat in the ring. Of course the backlash from the business world would be immense and the behind the scenes lobbying would be viscous, you would have to have nuts of steel and a party that could withstand the withdrawal of "donations"....

Anybody?
Leaving the EU doesn't necessarily mean the end of economic migrants, especially if it suits those in power to have them here.
Isn't that part of the whole criticism of the system? Skilled people from India etc have to stack up points to come here, but unskilled Europeans can come, regardless?
Even dear old Farage has said as much, and often enough.
Chewster
Posts: 527
Joined: 15 Jan 2016, 12:34
Gender: Male

Royal Mail in EU referendum

Post by Chewster »

There's a lot of xenophobia on this thread.
NWpostie
Posts: 3620
Joined: 04 Aug 2007, 17:32
Gender: Male
Location: Sector 001 Borg Collective, 6 o f 9

Royal Mail in EU referendum

Post by NWpostie »

Danelectro wrote:
NWpostie wrote:


Deficit was Labour's legacy and that famous treasury note "There's no money left, good luck"

If there was no money left where did the cash we loaned to Ireland come from?The magic of London?

I don't see what a politically motivated claim about the city and tories has to do with the Euro crisis in Europe.

Well the Bojos of the world will bang on a bout how important the City of London is to the economy and how it is THE world financial centre and you saying that it has no influence on the Euro and Europe?

Though I'm sure we can fully agree on one thing in the event of an OUT vote and that is Her Majesty the Queen and Prince Philip most be forced to apply for citizenship from Germany and Greece.After all its only fair that we should judge if they have the skills we need.
Some of that money is from our reserves.

Your post about the Royal Family is pointless.

The City doesn't have any influence on the Euro or Europe because it's a British insitution not European again another pointless post.

I suspect you're just another anti capitalist anti Royalist spouting off.
Six of Nine loves Seven of Nine, together in Electric Dreams.
Danelectro
Posts: 1058
Joined: 13 Apr 2008, 01:02

Royal Mail in EU referendum

Post by Danelectro »

NWpostie wrote:
Your post about the Royal Family is pointless.

The City doesn't have any influence on the Euro or Europe because it's a British insitution not European again another pointless post.

I suspect you're just another anti capitalist anti Royalist spouting off.
Haha the Royal family line was a wind up to highlight how far your hatred of immigrants goes.Never trust an Icelander? but bow down to a fruitcake Greek aristocrat? your all over the place man and your assertion that THE world financial centre does not play a role in international finance is laughable.You will be telling me next that data in the Panama papers which shows London launders billions on behalf of tax havens is some communist plot.
toomuchcoke
Posts: 309
Joined: 05 Jun 2011, 18:15
Gender: Male

Royal Mail in EU referendum

Post by toomuchcoke »

fishtank wrote:Every EU directive has to be enshrined in UK law before it means anything, that's generally where we get screwed over because the government of the day puts its own spin on it, not to protect the interests of UK citizens but to protect the interests of themselves and their friends.
You forgot to mention the part where our government then says either "The EU made us do that!" or "The EU won't let us change that!" when/if people in the UK complain!
NWpostie
Posts: 3620
Joined: 04 Aug 2007, 17:32
Gender: Male
Location: Sector 001 Borg Collective, 6 o f 9

Royal Mail in EU referendum

Post by NWpostie »

Danelectro wrote:
NWpostie wrote:
Your post about the Royal Family is pointless.

The City doesn't have any influence on the Euro or Europe because it's a British insitution not European again another pointless post.

I suspect you're just another anti capitalist anti Royalist spouting off.
Haha the Royal family line was a wind up to highlight how far your hatred of immigrants goes.Never trust an Icelander? but bow down to a fruitcake Greek aristocrat? your all over the place man and your assertion that THE world financial centre does not play a role in international finance is laughable.You will be telling me next that data in the Panama papers which shows London launders billions on behalf of tax havens is some communist plot.

This. A hallmark of a troll. You're contributing nothing to the debate.

With that. My conversation with you has ended.
Six of Nine loves Seven of Nine, together in Electric Dreams.
Danelectro
Posts: 1058
Joined: 13 Apr 2008, 01:02

Royal Mail in EU referendum

Post by Danelectro »

Many problems today are international, and so require a coordinated EU approach

Problems of global warming, pollution, malnutrition, disease, economic and financial crisis, organised crime, corruption, war, mass migration etc. are often wider than the EU. Britain already plays its part in numerous international agencies (the UN, WHO, Unesco, ILO etc.), based on individual member states, to combat them.

The EU represents the interests of Europe’s big business corporations, using its collective strength to undermine many international agencies to the cost of weaker countries and their peoples (e.g. carbon emission trading schemes which transfer licenced pollution to the Third World and create a new source of financial speculation and profit; trade and debt restructuring agreements which require market access and privatisation).

As the world’s fifth biggest economic power with economic, political and cultural relations across the world, Britain has its own resources, expertise and perpsectives to contribute to solving international problems.

The EU can be reformed to serve the interests of the people

Three of the four major EU institutions (the Commission, European Central Bank and European Court of Justice) have their extensive powers guaranteed by EU treaties which can only be changed by unanimous agreement within the fourth, namely, the Council of Ministers.

Similarly, the basic free market, pro-austerity policies of the EU are set in concrete in those same treaties, which can only be amended by unanimous agreement of all member states (28 at present).

Those fundamental treaties severely limit the ability of EU member state governments to fund public investment, rescue failing companies and industries, save jobs or use public ownership for wider economic, social and environmental purposes. Should Britain elect a left or progressive government, the treaties will act as a strait-jacket on its policies, which could only be removed if every other EU member state government agrees to treaty change.

Outside the EU, a future British government would be free to regulate the movement of capital, goods and services in order to boost domestic investment in productive industry, stimulate economic growth and balanced industrial development, support strategic sectors and enterprises, promote ecological and energy saving measures, encourage different forms of public and social ownership, and protect all workers against super-exploitation.

Scotland and Wales benefit from EU funds and British and withdrawal would lead to the break-up of Britain


Wales receives around £18m a year (£92m according to Plaid Cymru) more from EU funds than it puts in. But this is less than one-fifth of 1 per cent of Britain’s net contribution to the EU Budget (£15.2bn in 2016) and of the National Assembly’s annual block grant from central government (£15.5bn in 2016).

In July 2015, it was revealed that the SNP government has been compelled to drastically amend its Scottish Futures Trust project for public investment in schools, hospitals and roads to give the private sector a bigger, more profitable role.

Scotland and Wales have suffered heavily from the export of capital and jobs to southern and eastern Europe, where labour is skilled but cheaper and energy and transport costs are lower.

As independent member states of the EU, Scotland and Wales would be among the smallest, while their main economic relations would continue to be with England. The Scottish Government in Edinburgh accepts that Scotland would continue to be a net contributor to the EU Budget as a separate member state.

Outside the EU, the Scottish, Welsh and British governments would be free to decide whether and how to finance public expenditure and support strategic industries and services. Free from the EU Classical Directive on public procurement, local government could award larger contracts to local suppliers.

Democracy and human rights will be threatened if Britain leaves the EU

Democratic rights in Britain are enshrined in our domestic law, together with commitments arising from international law, its conventions and courts. Those rights did not originate in the EU.

Tory hostility has been aimed at the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) enshrined in Britain’s Human Rights Act and its European Court — both of which arise from our membership of the Council of Europe, set up in 1950 and wholly separate from the EU.

While EU membership obliges all member states to adopt the ECHR, this does not prevent governments from flouting both the convention and the UN Declaration of Human Rights. In December 2014, the ECJ blocked a draft treaty affiliating the EU to the convention and its court, not wishing to expose EU institutions and treaties to a different authority — the ECHR European Court — in matters of human and democratic rights.

We need to defend and extend democratic and human rights, including through the ECHR and OSCE, whether inside or outside the anti-democratic EU.

There is no realistic alternative to EU membership


Most of the world’s countries, big and small, manage without being in the EU. Britain has bilateral agreements with almost all of them, including through our participation in more than 70 international organisations in political, economic, scientific, emvironmental, labour, health and educational matters.

Many countries trade and cooperate with the EU, without being EU members or accepting the imposition of the pro-big business economic and financial policies demanded by EU treaties and institutions.

Joining the European Free Trade Area and through it the European Economic Area would enable Britain to remain in the ‘Single European Market’, but at the price of obeying many EU rules and diktats.

Economic, political and other relations could be strengthened by new arrangements with BRICS and the 53 Commonwealth countries, collectively and individually.
yellowbelly
Posts: 3732
Joined: 23 Jun 2015, 15:51
Gender: Male

Royal Mail in EU referendum

Post by yellowbelly »

Danelectro wrote:Many problems today are international, and so require a coordinated EU approach


The EU can be reformed to serve the interests of the people




Scotland and Wales benefit from EU funds and British and withdrawal would lead to the break-up of Britain


Democracy and human rights will be threatened if Britain leaves the EU



There is no realistic alternative to EU membership



Surprisingly this pro leave article is apparently Copyright of the Left Leave campaign, sponsored by:


Lexit – the Left Leave Campaign is supported by:

RMT trade union (Rail, Maritime and Transport)
Scottish Left Leave
Indian Workers Association (GB)
Bangladeshi Workers Council of Britain
Communist Party
Counterfire
Socialist Workers Party