stopping early finishes

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 11 Jun 2019, 21:41

we work all the hours that you are paid for - that is the viable alternative. Surely you understand that??

That's not up for debate but it's not an alternative.
It's how we work all the hours that we are paid that is the question.
Surely you understand that.

Is it by trying to align the workload to the hours ((lapsing) or do you try to align the hours to the workload (long and shorts, banking hours, annualised hours).

Despite what you might think a busted lapsing plan is only a "good thing" if it's a bad lapsing plan.
The alternative is much worse and the union might not be able to stop it.

We need to get away from the mind set that all we need to do is do the job properly and all our problems will disappear, that the business will just sit back and accept this decrease in productivity and accept the increase in costs with a shrug of the shoulders and an open cheque book (are those still a thing).

Every cost the business absorbs will be met with at least an equal and opposite attempt to claw back that cost elsewhere, that's what truly costs jobs....cost.

If the members want to protect their jobs they are going to have to be realistic, they will have to stop bickering amongst themselves about Bob starting 30 minutes early and start deciding what is really important enough about the job to protect because there will have to be some pretty savage sacrifices.

masterblaster · Post by **masterblaster** » 12 Jun 2019, 11:12

worktotime wrote:and posties will still start early , run round , and not take breaks , will people ever learn this company will keep taking and taking until your f****d , support the CWU and do the job right and they cant take f**k all then .

The ones who 'run round and not take breaks' in our office are also the fastest sorters, helping everybody out, nobody moans about that.

Gasman11 · Post by **Gasman11** » 12 Jun 2019, 15:22

Fast = mistakes, the amount of missorts i get every day from my 'fast sorter' does my head in and the quick lads in our place bring shed loads of packets back every day because they're racing round to get their overtime done as quickly as possible.

Smith1212 · Post by **Smith1212** » 12 Jun 2019, 15:42

I bring alot of parcels back daily what's your point I work my hours start on time finish on time ! I won't leave parcels anywhere so if not home slip left simples.

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 12 Jun 2019, 15:51

And here was me thinking that the runners left all the parcels in blue bins....

Gasman11 · Post by **Gasman11** » 12 Jun 2019, 16:00

Your perogative to bring everything back but i like to build rapport with thecustomers on my round and i dont see the problem in trying to help them out by leaving a parcel with their neighbour. Takes a bit longer and people appreciate it.

Smith1212 · Post by **Smith1212** » 12 Jun 2019, 16:09

Yeah I agree totally but trying neighbours doesn't mean there be in ! So for whatever reason I bring alot of parcels back and I'll not leave any because they won't pay my mortgage if I get sacked for doorstepping. So I'm glad to try help customers but only if it's safe and doable.

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 12 Jun 2019, 16:37

So for whatever reason I bring alot of parcels back

It tends to depend more on the type of delivery than the postie, rurals bring very few back, older houses with older residents bring fewer back, new developments where everyone has to work to pay the ridiculous mortgage are just one P739 after another. The rougher areas are hit and miss, they might be in but that doesn't mean they'll answer the door.

Gasman11 · Post by **Gasman11** » 12 Jun 2019, 16:46

Totally agree about success rates for different types of locations but within that i also believe a dilligent approach yields a better success rate over the lets tear around this walk as fast as possible approach.

postslippete · Post by **postslippete** » 12 Jun 2019, 17:21

In recent years the business has done absolutely everything to claw back the costs. We have got rid of second deliveries, we got Indoor Work Plans, we have got longs and shorts, we have got more part-timers, we have got PDAs tracking our every move, we got a shorter working week, we have got lapsing. Truth is all we really need to do is do the job properly because thats what mangers on six figure salaries like the "Director of Continuous Improvement" are paid to do (I read it on the letters page of the courier).

Now the business has a grand vision in 5 years for us to deliver a few less larger parcels in return for an increase in our walking/driving delivery span. Its probably been shown as do-able on many PDAs because posties have an uncanny habit of coming in to work early unpaid without taking a break and rushing round. I'm sure if posties just did the job properly maybe it wouldn't be as do-able?? Maybe AHDC could help rectify a few things?

glass joe · Post by **glass joe** » 12 Jun 2019, 18:18

Next phase will be bringing in a clock in and out system and future contracts will state you will stop being paid once you clock out. Royal Mail would save a fortune and to come in early would be a thing of the past (unless you are mad or don't care about money)

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 12 Jun 2019, 18:47

glass joe wrote:Next phase will be bringing in a clock in and out system and future contracts will state you will stop being paid once you clock out. Royal Mail would save a fortune and to come in early would be a thing of the past (unless you are mad or don't care about money)

I'm not sure I follow your logic.
Both you and pete seem to be arguing both ends of the same point.

If clocking in and out stops people coming in early how will it save Royal Mail a fortune?
If starting early, skipping breaks and rushing around costs us hours and jobs and all the other things that are said on these boards it stands to reason that stopping all that bad practice will cost Royal Mail big time.

So bearing that in mind what motivation does RM have in bringing in this new phase?

Royal Mail believe early finishes cost them money.
The union believe early finishes costs jobs.
We can't both be right.

Cedar_Room · Post by **Cedar_Room** » 12 Jun 2019, 19:49

Woody Guthrie wrote:
So for whatever reason I bring alot of parcels back
It tends to depend more on the type of delivery than the postie, rurals bring very few back, older houses with older residents bring fewer back, new developments where everyone has to work to pay the ridiculous mortgage are just one P739 after another. The rougher areas are hit and miss, they might be in but that doesn't mean they'll answer the door.

Celgar · Post by **Celgar** » 12 Jun 2019, 20:35

Woody Guthrie wrote:
glass joe wrote:Next phase will be bringing in a clock in and out system and future contracts will state you will stop being paid once you clock out. Royal Mail would save a fortune and to come in early would be a thing of the past (unless you are mad or don't care about money)
I'm not sure I follow your logic.
Both you and pete seem to be arguing both ends of the same point.

If clocking in and out stops people coming in early how will it save Royal Mail a fortune?
If starting early, skipping breaks and rushing around costs us hours and jobs and all the other things that are said on these boards it stands to reason that stopping all that bad practice will cost Royal Mail big time.

So bearing that in mind what motivation does RM have in bringing in this new phase?

Royal Mail believe early finishes cost them money.
The union believe early finishes costs jobs.
We can't both be right.

RM can't and don't see Postie's coming in early in upper management which is where all the decisions are made. Management on the ground see it and either ignore it or try and advise posties to stop who then take no notice. There is no foolproof log of early starts but RM have tracking via the newer or upgraded vans and via all the PDAs. All they see is time not worked at the end of duty time. They don't & can't see the full picture. Some of them probably know the real situation is that they are getting more than their moneys worth out of us.

postslippete · Post by **postslippete** » 12 Jun 2019, 21:49

Royal Mail don't see early finishes as costing them money - they see it as an opportunity of saving money by lapsing duties

The Union believe that lapsing costs jobs because the duty would otherwise be covered by a postie. In the long term when lapsing becomes non-stop eventually the duties become bigger and then there are fewer posties.

However I think AHDC would be good thing. We have PDAs that record our outdoor time, but what measures are there to accurately record our indoor time?? Today we lapsed 2 duties and the reasoning was because staff were still finishing early. Ironically the only guys who managed the lapse were the same ones who came in up to an hour early unpaid to get their mail and packets in before anyone else so they could leave the office at 9am instead of up to an hour later.

Now thats not the sort of logic that I aspire to...