Now if it was rephrased " how many managers have been promoted for bullying in the last few years" you could probably say quite a fewsteven100 wrote:Why I will be voting no, How many managers have been sacked for bullying in the last few years??????? I'm assuming next to none.
Do we honestly believe that there will be change in management style. I doubt it.
So voting is the only option. Yes is not a option, unless your enjoy get bullied and don't have a social life outside RM.
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New agreement vote
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jack
- Posts: 299
- Joined: 28 Aug 2007, 14:32
Re: New agreement vote
'Royal Mail leaders could not lead a worm, they'll never take our pride cos that's what we earn'
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OnAFlyer
- Posts: 1938
- Joined: 16 Aug 2009, 14:24
- Gender: Male
Re: New agreement vote
But don't you agree that a lot of the 'no' voters are basing their votes on the very worst case scenarios happening? I personally don't see any reason why RM would be in financial trouble or have problems fulfilling the USO whilst this deal lasts.TrueBlueTerrier wrote:I have not made my mind up yet which may shock some of you, but I think this agreement needs to be read a few times before I make the final call.
However the one thing that is disappointing is how many of the "yes" voters are going to vote based on either the Money or on some big "what if". The only reasonable course for me is taking everything into account that is in the agreement, and nothing else. If you think the WHOLE agreement on balance is a good one then vote YES - If you think that the downsides outweigh the good ones then Vote NO.
There is in my opinion absolutely no point in voting in a bad, or even a good agreement, on the premise of what will Royal Mail do if. We should all vote on the agreement itself and then deal with the consequences after. Voting intentions based on fear is a short road to heartache and disappointment.
It can't just suddenly say the company is worthless or struggling as it did with colleague shares because it's listed on the stock exchange and officially worth billions.
IMO RM moved to 5 years for a reason - not because there are get out clauses (which are perfectly standard stuff for this type of thing) but because there's no reason to think the next 5 years will hold any real issues with regards to the USO and profitability.
The pay rise is good, but let's be clear we will be largely paying for it ourselves in increased efficiency. That doesn't bother me, I'd rather have more money and do a bit more if I have the time to do it. It's the ones who struggle with the work who are going to be targeted, part of me says that should have been done long ago because with P&L now standard there are too many people not pulling their weight.
Yes there are plenty of what ifs and maybes, but I don't think the CWU could have got a better deal under the circumstances. Maybe if we'd walked in November a few things would have improved but I doubt much would have.
The agreement after this one in 2019? Now that one is going to be interesting because I don't see a 6 day USO still existing past the next 5-10 years.
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fishtank
- Posts: 19732
- Joined: 28 Sep 2007, 17:22
- Gender: Male
Re: New agreement vote
What's even more surprising is how many on here said that it's all about delivery and if delivery isn't sorted then it's no deal.TrueBlueTerrier wrote:However the one thing that is disappointing is how many of the "yes" voters are going to vote based on either the Money or on some big "what if".
Is delivery sorted?
good times, bad times you know I've had my share
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clashcityrocker
- Posts: 16689
- Joined: 22 Sep 2009, 13:50
- Gender: Male
- Location: strummerville
Re: New agreement vote
I think it is a fudge.
But then maybe all agreements are, maybe that is the nature of compromise.
I can't for the life of me see what they have been talking about for so long because all of the detail is missing.
It is a professional negotiators deal.
Rather cold. Rather dull. Rather nothing.
But then maybe all agreements are, maybe that is the nature of compromise.
I can't for the life of me see what they have been talking about for so long because all of the detail is missing.
It is a professional negotiators deal.
Rather cold. Rather dull. Rather nothing.
The societies of consumption and squandering of material resources are incompatible with the idea of economic growth and a clean planet.
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cpg67
- Posts: 14
- Joined: 19 Nov 2013, 15:53
- Gender: Male
Re: New agreement vote
I'm still undecided one half says yes the says um!!!
But remember grangemouth!!!
But remember grangemouth!!!
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fishtank
- Posts: 19732
- Joined: 28 Sep 2007, 17:22
- Gender: Male
Re: New agreement vote
I'll vote no purely on the basis that it contains a threat that the legal protections will be removed in the event of national industrial action.clashcityrocker wrote: Rather cold. Rather dull. Rather nothing.
I'm aware that it is a futile gesture but my conscience won't allow me to concede to a threat like that.
If the company's intentions are truly altruistic why would it need to tie the hands of its negotiating "partner" like that?
Why would they even be worried about national industrial action?
good times, bad times you know I've had my share
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Himaggen
- Posts: 993
- Joined: 09 Oct 2007, 23:40
Re: New agreement vote
Exactly, If it was Royal Mail's intention to commit to radically improving Industrial Relations, then there would be no need to build in protection from Industrial Action due to an Industrial Relations breakdown.fishtank wrote:Why would they even be worried about national industrial action?
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jack
- Posts: 299
- Joined: 28 Aug 2007, 14:32
Re: New agreement vote
Or will deliveries ever be sorted?fishtank wrote:What's even more surprising is how many on here said that it's all about delivery and if delivery isn't sorted then it's no deal.TrueBlueTerrier wrote:However the one thing that is disappointing is how many of the "yes" voters are going to vote based on either the Money or on some big "what if".
Is delivery sorted?
I doubt it very much especially as royal mail see there's more room for savings in delivery
'Royal Mail leaders could not lead a worm, they'll never take our pride cos that's what we earn'
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clashcityrocker
- Posts: 16689
- Joined: 22 Sep 2009, 13:50
- Gender: Male
- Location: strummerville
Re: New agreement vote
I think they know that to push through modernisation in some areas is going to be problematic.fishtank wrote: Why would they even be worried about national industrial action?
You have to remember a lot of areas haven't implemented sections of The Way Forward, let alone embraced Pay and Mod or BT2010.
Dragging those areas into the 21st century may provoke unrest.
They don't want that unrest becoming widespread.
The societies of consumption and squandering of material resources are incompatible with the idea of economic growth and a clean planet.
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Danelectro
- Posts: 1058
- Joined: 13 Apr 2008, 01:02
Re: New agreement vote
maybe time to change your avatarfishtank wrote: I'll vote no
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whatamess!!
- Posts: 279
- Joined: 13 Jan 2011, 17:43
- Gender: Female
Re: New agreement vote
The other thing to consider, alot of the old timers (maybe the more militant), will see a 5 year agreement to take them to retirement. Alot of the younger folk are not up for any type of fight and accept alot more s**t as they feel their thankfull to have a job, the Government has done a wonderful job on that front, W@nkers!!! 
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Bag of d2d
- Posts: 40
- Joined: 21 Apr 2008, 14:12
- Gender: Male
- Location: Capital
Re: New agreement vote
So what happens if we strike due to provocation by RM not adhering to the agreement?
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janitor
- EX ROYAL MAIL
- Posts: 689
- Joined: 28 Aug 2007, 16:18
- Gender: Male
Re: New agreement vote
you will have to it unofficially as the union will have its head in the sand, it will refuse to acknowledge theres a problem, no change there then.
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steven100
- Posts: 1391
- Joined: 09 Aug 2009, 12:35
- Gender: Male
Re: New agreement vote
Lets have a campaign for a no vote.
Lets highlight all the negative aspects of the deal...........I mean the really negative things on a flyer.
Wonder if my office will allow me to do this
.
Lets highlight all the negative aspects of the deal...........I mean the really negative things on a flyer.
Wonder if my office will allow me to do this
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Darren Bent
- Posts: 2150
- Joined: 05 Oct 2007, 15:38
- Gender: Male
- Location: Pride Park, Derby, DE24 8XL
Re: New agreement vote
What everyone need to do is think what would happens if there is a no vote.
Royal Mail won't make it easier for workload for us. The shareholders will demand savings so Royal Mail will need cull of managers and this will reduce b & h eventually. I think a yes vote for me, but I will need to read the agreement in depth to make final decision.
Royal Mail won't make it easier for workload for us. The shareholders will demand savings so Royal Mail will need cull of managers and this will reduce b & h eventually. I think a yes vote for me, but I will need to read the agreement in depth to make final decision.