Do you really care?

[pinstripe]

"how do you expect the Staff to respond to threats to Jobs and Pensions ? you cannot expect them to just roll over accept it."

There are some who hope that we will. :lfo :cfo :mfo

[andy2007]

Very true and theres even a third possibility where the Pension deficit and the USO is dropped on the nation and the profitable bits shared out. With reference to all the claims that RM would have 'caved in' if the CWU had hung in there, sorry I don't buy that. There will always be a few, and it is a few, that have convinced themselves that standing together with linked arms would have defeated the capitalist oppressors or some such nonsense but its a blinkered view even on a good day. The CWU just weren't smart enough and were stuck in the 70s mentality that staying out changes things. It doesn't and it hasn't and it won't. Everytime the union was presented with facts and figures whether right or wrong, they were totally out of their depth, harping on about 'service', not keeping their eye on the ball and cock sure that standing their ground was the way to win. Brains will always win out over brawn in situations like this but its not something the CWU is accustomed to. The final solution is nigh.

Do you want to rethink that last bit of the post NT?

I do hope it was only a mistake

You never know, NT might be a closet BNP Member!

[jafferpants]

Nite tonic is probably one of those people who takes out a loan can't pay it back and then has the nerve to blame the bank for lending it to him in the first place. Let me tell him and anyone else who thinks we should roll over with regards to the pension that when i started in rm you did not have a choice over the pension you had to join it was compulsary and you signed a document to that effect. Now i don't know about you but where i come from thats called a contract and i bloody well expect those bastards to adhere to the terms of it just the same as i have for 4 decades. Of course the reason this country is now in the state it's in is beacause to many people just sit there and take everything thats chucked at them just like all those twats who took the pieces of silver on offer and voted yes. Lets hope your all proud of yourselves. How many of you numptys are now top of the moaning league over what is now being asked of you. To that i say TOUGH you asked for it and got it so enjoy and to the rest of you good folk who still have a long working life in front of you in rm i can only offer you my sympathy cos where it's heading i dread to think, i no longer recognise the job i enjoyed and was proud to do for many a year and before anybody sniggers at that last statement remember this. It was not that long ago that if you left rm for another job you did not need a reference because the fact that you worked for rm was reference enough so think on!!!!!.

PS i'm off to lay down in a dark room with a cold towel on my head

[NWpostie]

The only thing we can do and I think RM shot themselves in the foot over it as well, no more job and finish which was actually encouraged by RM up to the last agreement which Leighton said " we should work all the hours we are paid for" I can live with that, so I will be doing my job properly according to the rules, as long as you do it by the book and as long as you are not bullshitting, you are ok, because if they ever pull you up over it, you can respond by saying "come out with me on delivery and see for yourself" if they ever find out you are falsely claiming docket, they will rip your balls off, RM as an entity now isn't very forgiving, they are quick to sack anybody in order to save redundancy money these days.

Cover your backs and do your job right, the stress levels will soon drop away, we were all mugs for Job and Finish = time and motion by stealth.

[borders]

Nite tonic is probably one of those people who takes out a loan can't pay it back and then has the nerve to blame the bank for lending it to him in the first place. Let me tell him and anyone else who thinks we should roll over with regards to the pension that when i started in rm you did not have a choice over the pension you had to join it was compulsary and you signed a document to that effect. Now i don't know about you but where i come from thats called a contract and i bloody well expect those bastards to adhere to the terms of it just the same as i have for 4 decades. Of course the reason this country is now in the state it's in is beacause to many people just sit there and take everything thats chucked at them just like all those twats who took the pieces of silver on offer and voted yes. Lets hope your all proud of yourselves. How many of you numptys are now top of the moaning league over what is now being asked of you. To that i say TOUGH you asked for it and got it so enjoy and to the rest of you good folk who still have a long working life in front of you in rm i can only offer you my sympathy cos where it's heading i dread to think, i no longer recognise the job i enjoyed and was proud to do for many a year and before anybody sniggers at that last statement remember this. It was not that long ago that if you left rm for another job you did not need a reference because the fact that you worked for rm was reference enough so think on!!!!!.

PS i'm off to lay down in a dark room with a cold towel on my head

excellent post my friend

[stokes11eg]

Nite tonic is probably one of those people who takes out a loan can't pay it back and then has the nerve to blame the bank for lending it to him in the first place. Let me tell him and anyone else who thinks we should roll over with regards to the pension that when i started in rm you did not have a choice over the pension you had to join it was compulsary and you signed a document to that effect. Now i don't know about you but where i come from thats called a contract and i bloody well expect those bastards to adhere to the terms of it just the same as i have for 4 decades. Of course the reason this country is now in the state it's in is beacause to many people just sit there and take everything thats chucked at them just like all those twats who took the pieces of silver on offer and voted yes. Lets hope your all proud of yourselves. How many of you numptys are now top of the moaning league over what is now being asked of you. To that i say TOUGH you asked for it and got it so enjoy and to the rest of you good folk who still have a long working life in front of you in rm i can only offer you my sympathy cos where it's heading i dread to think, i no longer recognise the job i enjoyed and was proud to do for many a year and before anybody sniggers at that last statement remember this. It was not that long ago that if you left rm for another job you did not need a reference because the fact that you worked for rm was reference enough so think on!!!!!.

PS i'm off to lay down in a dark room with a cold towel on my head

excellent post my Qufriend

Quite right!!!! Especially about the "moaning League'---I bet you there will be no Royal Mail as we know it, eighteen months from now---Iremember when I voted no for the four hundred pounds,being made to feel like the odd one out----I'm having a wee laugh to myself now, when everyone realises
what they really signed for.

[fmrPOSTIE]

I still care, even though i have now left the business...we've seen what privatisation has done to the gas/water and electric utilities. Look at the way the energy companies are increasing bills through the roof even though oil has fallen dramatically. Look at the Water Co.s that are making sick profits and the price fixing scandals that have gone on. Look at the railways whereby RAILTRACK was a disaster, look at all the public subsidy going into the TOCs.

Just for once we are going to keep something public - and that's going to be Royal Mail. If we can turnaround RM fortunes into an efficient public sector body then it will serve as a beacon of hope for other services.

TNT dont give a s**t about a public service ethos, its not grained into the busines, RM is slightly different.

What happened to a not-for-profit business model the CWU were proposing a few yrs back?

[Night Tonic]

Let me ask a couple of questions, is it right for the Pension issue and USO to be ignored ? when I joined up we were promised a final salary Pension, this was destroyed by Gordon Brown's stealth tax and RM management pension payment holiday, why should we accept a pension cuts due to their incompetence ?

Is it reasonable for so many pensioners that were in private pensions to suddenly find their pensions were worth nothing. Thats not right either but you can understand the resentment by people to pay for a deficit when their own was washed away by Brown. Neither is right but what makes yours more important than theirs?

Also The title Royal Mail is significant, this gives a royal privilage to provide a service to the Public including the disabled who could not get out of their houses, we are a social service more than just a business to all kind of customers who can be nice for most parts, some downright nasty and petty victor meldrews, which is sometimes run at a loss also at a profit (which previous Govts have creamed off), also the Staff are vetted and has a responsible position whch is the safety and safe delivery of Mail in exchange for stable Job and security.

That went when we went from Royal Mail to Consignia then back again and found ourselves signed up to deregulation. It gives us no special case at all now other than a responsibility to the USO.

to employ casuals without any vested interest in Job security will only destroy the integrity of RM, there have been incident of casual (also in my office) dumping or stealing mail when they couldn't be bothered completing.

Agree

the Union is not usually strike prone in the past, at that time everybody was working well together Managers and Posties, the was no need to rock the boat, common sense ruled, these days some Mangers have never been on Delivery and don't know the job, with only a Business Degree for qualifications, New Brooms nearly always come up with a bright idea to change things in RM and upsetting a lot of people, Posties AND Customers.

Not sure what point you're making here but it has upset a lot of customers and understandable

I don't like striking and I am sure most Posties don't as they know it can be damaging to the business and threatening Jobs, certain areas of the UK are prone to be bolshy, not all, Strike are a last resort for most, how do you expect the Staff to respond to threats to Jobs and Pensions ? you cannot expect them to just roll over accept it.

No but idiotic to alienate ourselves from what support we do have. Timing was dreadful and stand by it

[k979aaa]

I still care, even though i have now left the business...we've seen what privatisation has done to the gas/water and electric utilities. Look at the way the energy companies are increasing bills through the roof even though oil has fallen dramatically. Look at the Water Co.s that are making sick profits and the price fixing scandals that have gone on. Look at the railways whereby RAILTRACK was a disaster, look at all the public subsidy going into the TOCs.

Just for once we are going to keep something public - and that's going to be Royal Mail. If we can turnaround RM fortunes into an efficient public sector body then it will serve as a beacon of hope for other services.

TNT dont give a s**t about a public service ethos, its not grained into the busines, RM is slightly different.

What happened to a not-for-profit business model the CWU were proposing a few yrs back?

Well said

[jmlr1971]

NO

[NWpostie]

Let me ask a couple of questions, is it right for the Pension issue and USO to be ignored ? when I joined up we were promised a final salary Pension, this was destroyed by Gordon Brown's stealth tax and RM management pension payment holiday, why should we accept a pension cuts due to their incompetence ?

Is it reasonable for so many pensioners that were in private pensions to suddenly find their pensions were worth nothing. Thats not right either but you can understand the resentment by people to pay for a deficit when their own was washed away by Brown. Neither is right but what makes yours more important than theirs?

For a long time the Public sector had a low wage culture so to compensate for that was Job security and a final salary pension scheme, that was the deal, whereas the Private sector historically outstripped the state sector by having a higher wage there was also a final salary pension scheme, that has changed in the last few years, now our wages are nearly on par with the private sector, the private sector never complained about our low wages or stuck up for us, if anything looked down their noses at us, so they are now whining that we are keeping our pension, while they are losing theirs, they can't have it all their way and they had too good for too long without a thought for anybody.

I don't like striking and I am sure most Posties don't as they know it can be damaging to the business and threatening Jobs, certain areas of the UK are prone to be bolshy, not all, Strike are a last resort for most, how do you expect the Staff to respond to threats to Jobs and Pensions ? you cannot expect them to just roll over accept it.

No but idiotic to alienate ourselves from what support we do have. Timing was dreadful and stand by it

how do you suggest they go about it ?

[Night Tonic]

For a long time the Public sector had a low wage culture so to compensate for that was Job security and a final salary pension scheme, that was the deal, whereas the Private sector historically outstripped the state sector by having a higher wage there was also a final salary pension scheme, that has changed in the last few years, now our wages are nearly on par with the private sector, the private sector never complained about our low wages or stuck up for us, if anything looked down their noses at us, so they are now whining that we are keeping our pension, while they are losing theirs, they can't have it all their way and they had too good for too long without a thought for anybody.

No idea where you get the idea that job security and a final salary pension were compensation for low wages although that might be your perception. There are also an unbelievable number of self-employed people that don't earn much more than you do and have no choice except private pension schemes and still lost theirs. Again, whats sets us apart from anyone else?

I don't like striking and I am sure most Posties don't as they know it can be damaging to the business and threatening Jobs, certain areas of the UK are prone to be bolshy, not all, Strike are a last resort for most, how do you expect the Staff to respond to threats to Jobs and Pensions ? you cannot expect them to just roll over accept it.

No of course you don't like striking and I fully support your fight to retain jobs but saying 'what else can we do' doesn't mean that striking is the right thing or that it will change anything and most of us know, even if we don't like to admit it, that striking won't achieve anything but pissing off the few supporters we had by doing this so close to Christmas is complete suicide. I'm hearing the backlash of this all day long at the moment. It is one of the worst PR jobs to date. We might just as well have lit the touch paper ourselves.

[k979aaa]

Once a post office shuts it's gone for good once a mail center shuts it's gone for good!. Once we go on strike they will see what it will be like if it is closed but it will reopen the next day!. It is called raising awareness of the service's that will be lost for good if royal mail has their way!.

[Night Tonic]

I presume you've missed the headlines then.

[andy2007]

Which ones?