Union Reps Wakeup

[rockytony67]

Fishtank who's the judge of whether the rep is doing the job correctly? as you say "Yes it's an unpaid,thankless task but if you can't or won't do it properly you're still a liability to your members" so what's the answer? I go for the basic one of we have a democratic union, and that someone should stand against the rep or there should be a vote of no confidence, I would love to know a better way

There has to be dual accountability from above and below and at the moment there isn't.
If a rep is shafting 45% of his members and looking after 55% democracy says he stays whether someone else stands or not.
That's a lot of members not getting the representation they deserve..or pay for.
If you want a "for instance" part-time members in some offices are not getting 1in4 saturdays,in some cases working every saturday in order to facilitate 1in4 for the majority full-time staff.
Democracy is fine if you are the majority...just an empty word to the minority.

Fair point but how would it work? the accountability from below has to come from the people who the local rep represents, I don't see any way that can be done apart from democratic methods the accountability from above can only come from democratic methods or the rep not following the correct union protocol, I would love to know how your idea's would work in practice, how do you get "dual accountability" I have no idea

A poem comes to my mind
They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up.

that 55% should not vote a policy through which shafts the 45%, humanity is not about %, it about creating a non exploited society, we are not all the same but we should not exploit others to get an easy life, that’s the mentality of managers and leaders.

Great idea and no rep worth his salt should condone it, but how do you make it work in the real world I would love to know

[fishtank]

I would love to know how your idea's would work in practice, how do you get "dual accountability" I have no idea

I think the branches are the key.
More support,more education,a more "hands on" approach altogether from area reps and branch officials.
More regular visits to units,especially those with a high level of IR issues and those with low membership ratios.
Area reps should be more pro-active,less willing to wait for a problem to arrive first before they act.
When visiting a unit they should talk to the members,not always in a formal meeting but sometimes in smaller groups and 1 to 1.
There should also be immediate branch level scrutiny of all local agreements to make sure they adhere to national guidelines.
A move towards a more professional branch structure altogether is needed,if some have to close and merge in the process so be it.

A more visible,supportive and pro-active branch gives members the confidence to expect the best representation at local level and do something about it if they don't get it.
Some branches already operate this way.
Some aren't even close.

I don't have all the answers rocky.
In fact i don't have many but that's no reason to stop asking the questions because maybe someone smarter may come up with it one day.

[dvbuk55]

[A poem comes to my mind
They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up.

that 55% should not vote a policy through which shafts the 45%, humanity is not about %, it about creating a non exploited society, we are not all the same but we should not exploit others to get an easy life, that’s the mentality of managers and leaders.

Aye yours is not the only mind that poem has come to Well quoted on here and in my humble opinion bearing no relationship whatsoever to the circumstances portrayed.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

[A poem comes to my mind
They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up.

that 55% should not vote a policy through which shafts the 45%, humanity is not about %, it about creating a non exploited society, we are not all the same but we should not exploit others to get an easy life, that’s the mentality of managers and leaders.

Aye yours is not the only mind that poem has come to Well quoted on here and in my humble opinion bearing no relationship whatsoever to the circumstances portrayed.

In a literal sense no.

Its the spirit of solidarity and standing up for yourself by doing so for others , which in my humble opinion the message that people try to convey when they post this.

[dvbuk55]

[A poem comes to my mind
They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up.

that 55% should not vote a policy through which shafts the 45%, humanity is not about %, it about creating a non exploited society, we are not all the same but we should not exploit others to get an easy life, that’s the mentality of managers and leaders.

Aye yours is not the only mind that poem has come to Well quoted on here and in my humble opinion bearing no relationship whatsoever to the circumstances portrayed.

In a literal sense no.

Its the spirit of solidarity and standing up for yourself by doing so for others , which in my humble opinion the message that people try to convey when they post this.

Yes - repeatedly!

[keithposty]

Its the spirit of solidarity and standing up for yourself by doing so for others , which in my humble opinion the message that people try to convey when they post this

totally agree

why do some people just want to argue

just take a step back and look at the meaning of words and its context

[fishtank]

why do some people just want to argue

just take a step back and look at the meaning of words and its context

They don't.
They just have a different opinion to you.
This seems to be something you have an issue with.
Perhaps you should....just take a step back etc,etc.

[keithposty]

i have no problem with difference of opinions, i value constructive debate with valid arguments and not unfounded hearsay.
i deal in facts and if i do not know, i will ask and research

if i took offence at a difference of opinion then i would be useless as a rep

what i do not like is unfounded accusations against reps and tarnishing all reps with the same brush.

i myself give 100 % into my role and i am respected for it, so please

do not treat all reps the same

[fishtank]

do not treat all reps the same

Exactly keith.
Some are good,some are bad and some are ugly.
Never let the bad or the ugly hide behind the good just because you don't like to hear criticism.
That's how all reps get tarnished.
Everything on here is unfounded hearsay...according to HQ it's more like heresy.
Even you stating that you give 100% and are respected by your members is unfounded hearsay.
I personally choose to believe everyone and everything until proven otherwise.
It's kind of pointless being on a forum otherwise.

[not me]

i have no problem with difference of opinions, i value constructive debate with valid arguments and not unfounded hearsay.
i deal in facts and if i do not know, i will ask and research

if i took offence at a difference of opinion then i would be useless as a rep

what i do not like is unfounded accusations against reps and tarnishing all reps with the same brush.

i myself give 100 % into my role and i am respected for it, so please

do not treat all reps the same

well its not unfounded given its from peoples experiences
it doesnt really matter if another office has a great rep.
it doesnt help those with crap ones.
doesnt see like the top bosses in the union care either.

[keithposty]

from what i can muster from all these complaints is that the blame must ultimately be up the next chain of command.

that would be branch level

i myself have an active branch and the area reps regular as clockwork go around all the delivery offices.
i know this as the DSM inspects the time sheets to comfirm compliance within statutory obligation.

so i ask the question

how are the area reps in different branches getting away with shirking their responsbilities by adopting a laid back style which results down the line to office reps, who then adopt a cavalier attitude knowing they will not get their wrists slapped

[dvbuk55]

from what i can muster from all these complaints is that the blame must ultimately be up the next chain of command.

that would be branch level

i myself have an active branch and the area reps regular as clockwork go around all the delivery offices.
i know this as the DSM inspects the time sheets to comfirm compliance within statutory obligation.

so i ask the question

how are the area reps in different branches getting away with shirking their responsbilities by adopting a laid back style which results down the line to office reps, who then adopt a cavalier attitude knowing they will not get their wrists slapped

Well keith I am sure you are a reliable rep and so is mine but the support from branch is non-existant as for the area rep visiting delivery offices well I would imagine not one in 50 of our office would recognise the area rep and if the DSM is supposed to ratify his whereabouts then that's is yet another failing.

[bandit650]

My area rep is one of the most hard working reps i have ever come across,she is supportive and stands by us every turn,she is always going from office to office everyday of the week there are very few days when she is not in working to gain better work practices in the offices and we have a few,she is hated by alot of the managers as she will not just let them push whatever in or let them get away with alot of things,she is one of the few reps i have known that looks at something that has been put forward and pulls it apart.She is truly in the job to get better things for each office,i have alot of time and respect for the lady, in my own opinion to be rep that is worth it's salt you have to fight for what you believe in and it comes from within, a desire to try and get the best for as many who want it.It's a hard life being a rep and it can be very lonely at times believe you me because you don't want to let anyone down while your doing the job,there are a few that are in it for themselves but you can also apply that to managers as well they want the money but really don't want to do the work.