LTB / COMMS UPDATE

[jaja]

RMC used to be a very useful tool but is now dominated by a few posters with dozens of people afraid to say anything in case they are jumped on.

I agree with you lovejoy it seems that the some people are going round and round in circles on here and it's getting boring

After all said and done reading through the agreement again and again and weighing everything up

I am voting yes, and if you don't like it tough shittie

It seems the same old few on here giving it the biggun if you don't agree with them, and they complain about management bullying

There’s enough of that on here

[LJR]

Nothing wrong with having your say and standing back but you have to wonder at the desperation that some RMC members from both camps will go to to swing a vote the way they believe? Have to say the Yes camp seem very desperate and have thrown out all reason and debate and have got down in the gutter with the rest of us for there side and thats quite funny! When this is all over i will still look forward to Dingo and Lovejoys posts its just this One subject that is not so welcome to RMC at the moment but that will change so why worry? If we all feel so pasinate about it then do something about it and that will not be done here on RMC where we are of an accord mostly but in your offices, so get in there and spread the word for whatever you believe and get people to vote!

[brothermagrew]

Or as has been said many times regardless of which camp you are in - THE MEMBERSHIP WILL DECIDE.

[numan]

The 'yes' voters seem to get a fair amount of abuse. Probably because they are in a minority on here. The pack mentality holds sway. Not very edifying to witness. Puts people off.

I'd say the yes voters get a lot of opposition (I wouldn't class the majority of it as abuse) because a few are just saying "give me the money", some are only offering an alternative of doom and gloom and many others don't have concrete arguments as they're simply pinning their hopes on an equivocal agreement.

[Straight4ward]

and the 'no' camp is all worst case scenarios.

For me by choosing to vote 'yes' I have a fair idea of where this will take me. By voting 'no' I am stepping into the unknown. I'm not prepared to gamble with the ability to provide for my family.

[numan]

I'm not prepared to gamble with the ability to provide for my family.

Isn't that what you do when you take any form of i/a? In which case there's no point in fighting for anything then.

[Straight4ward]

I've weighed the pros & cons of this proposed agreement and there is nothing that I find that reprehensible.

[Cliff Clavin]

No vote from me

[guvenor]

we are approaching the biggest vote in our history to determine our fate
not 1 union meeting have we had or been allowed .only extended wtl for ft staff
pointing out all good bits no mention of what we are expected to do no workplans re sats
deliveries nothing.
pt being completely ignored they don,t even know its all pro rata god help them
and they still come in 2/3 hrs before their time and then beg and i mean beg for ot
sorry but everyone in our do being seriously misled by suppression of facts and truths

[dvbuk55]

we are approaching the biggest vote in our history to determine our fate
not 1 union meeting have we had or been allowed .only extended wtl for ft staff
pointing out all good bits no mention of what we are expected to do no workplans re sats
deliveries nothing.
pt being completely ignored they don,t even know its all pro rata god help them
and they still come in 2/3 hrs before their time and then beg and i mean beg for ot
sorry but everyone in our do being seriously misled by suppression of facts and truths

Well what you are going to hear in the future is

"We negotiated it but YOU voted it in" - remember 2007 - that wonderful agreement that didn't stand the test of time.

[MinisterofCucumber]

Lovejoy has stitched us all up.

He has created the myth that there are loads of 'yes' voters on this site that won't admit it for fear of getting an e-beating by the 'no' bullies.

The truth is more straightforward. People come to this site for information that they're denied by their employer and union. When they actually read the agreement their reaction is usually WTF and they declare their intention of voting 'no' and explain why. This is because everyone else in the world is telling them to vote yes - their managers, their union reps, the union HQ and the media.

The 'yes' voters are mainly people who haven't read the proposed agreement. If they can't be arsed to read it, they are not going to be arsed to come on RMC and debate it. 'Yes' voters don't try to argue the logic for voting 'yes' because their decision is based on fear, not reason. They are voting 'yes' because they are frightened of voting 'no'. It is only the professional 'yes' pushers that come on RMC and debate the proposal and when they lose the argument they accuse the 'no' voters of bullying a category of 'yes' voters that nobody can prove exists or doesn't exist, that is 'yes' voters who would declare their intention if they didn't feel so intimidated by the 'no' voters.

If voters think there will be a big 'no' vote, their fear will be high and they will vote 'yes'. Perhaps we should have campaigned for a boycott to make the 'silent majority' think they would still be safe if they could get away with not having to go through the effort of voting. Then we could stab them in the back by voting 'no' instead of boycotting. I believe this sort of thing is called 'politics'.

[Martin Walsh]

Minster you state that a lot of posters come on this site to hear information which has been withheld from them by the union . However I think your find that a lot of the information which people on this site get is from myself , lovejoy and the truth.


We kept this site fairly informed during last years dispute and during the 4 months of talks. Yes we are easy targets as we are fairly well known Cwu officials. However I know some get caught up in the therory that royal mail chat is the true opinion of the lay membership of the union. Well sorry to disappoint you it's only a small reflexiation and most pec members have been touring the country meeting the members at the various branch meetings to explain the agreement . The branch then decides on whether the agreement is in the intrest of their branch members and whether they recommend the agreement.

Apart from 6 branchs Who have recommended a no vote the overwhelming majority of branch's have recommended a yes vote.

Out of intrest as you don't get a vote on the agreement which way are you going to vote on the mtsf part ? If it is going to be a no vote what in the mtsf changes is it you do not like ?

[MinisterofCucumber]

Dingo,

I shall be boycotting the ballot because I can sense that a high turnout is what CWU officials want the most and this makes me suspicious. I also believe the whole of RM group should be balloted on the productivity aspect of World Class Performance as I believe management intend to implement it across the whole group. This question should be put to all CWU members in RM group:

"Do you want to bring everybody's actual performance up to the level of the top 10 per cent performance consistent with good employment policy, appropriate equipment, safe working practises and consistent with national agreements?"

[dvbuk55]

Minster you state that a lot of posters come on this site to hear information which has been withheld from them by the union . However I think your find that a lot of the information which people on this site get is from myself , lovejoy and the truth.


We kept this site fairly informed during last years dispute and during the 4 months of talks. Yes we are easy targets as we are fairly well known Cwu officials. However I know some get caught up in the therory that royal mail chat is the true opinion of the lay membership of the union. Well sorry to disappoint you it's only a small reflexiation and most pec members have been touring the country meeting the members at the various branch meetings to explain the agreement . The branch then decides on whether the agreement is in the intrest of their branch members and whether they recommend the agreement.

Apart from 6 branchs Who have recommended a no vote the overwhelming majority of branch's have recommended a yes vote.

Out of intrest as you don't get a vote on the agreement which way are you going to vote on the mtsf part ? If it is going to be a no vote what in the mtsf changes is it you do not like ?

Well that is the problem really dingo because your and the others perspective of this deal is completely juxtaposed to the actual workforce who are going to be vastly affected by this agreement. Unlike you and yours.

I mean for one thing you are using words that I don't understand, I mean I have absolutely no idea what a reflexiation is.

[guvenor]

Minster you state that a lot of posters come on this site to hear information which has been withheld from them by the union . However I think your find that a lot of the information which people on this site get is from myself , lovejoy and the truth.


We kept this site fairly informed during last years dispute and during the 4 months of talks. Yes we are easy targets as we are fairly well known Cwu officials. However I know some get caught up in the therory that royal mail chat is the true opinion of the lay membership of the union. Well sorry to disappoint you it's only a small reflexiation and most pec members have been touring the country meeting the members at the various branch meetings to explain the agreement . The branch then decides on whether the agreement is in the intrest of their branch members and whether they recommend the agreement.

Apart from 6 branchs Who have recommended a no vote the overwhelming majority of branch's have recommended a yes vote.

Out of intrest as you don't get a vote on the agreement which way are you going to vote on the mtsf part ? If it is going to be a no vote what in the mtsf changes is it you do not like ?

what vote on mtsf we know nothing about this again not informed by union