Are we low paid?

[baldrick]

That depends on how you look at the question Tman and i read it as "Are we

Good to see I'm off your "ignore" list Links......

Christmas is a time of good will to all.

[smokerjim]

It matters not whether the job is manual or unskilled. What matters is how important the job your doing is.

No, what matters is how easy or hard it is to train (or get) a replacement.
That's why Lionel Messi etc are very highly paid, and MacD burger flippers are minimum wage, but thinking your job is somehow important (and by association, you are too) is a recipe for disappointment ....

I forgot to raise this earlier, but that is where you are very wrong - if POSTMAN or any of the Mods were to reveal their identity, with the intention to campaign for their constituency seat in the House of Commons, and asked for donations, I'd cheerfully dip in £10, multiply by 5 and that's the deposit for the contest covered, anything extra could go towards the cost of election materials, etc. also time could be donated ( POSTMAN is based in the London region....how many on this site living or working in greater London could donate a couple of hours going door to door? ).

One result would be massive publicity towrds maintaining a Public Service RM not least because this site is used as a resource by journalists ( but mass media might concentrate on that issue alone ) and if the candidate was elected as an independant ( and the upcoming election must be the best opportunity for independants for years ), it would give a "working class" voice in parliment on a lot of issues - a voice that has been silenced over the last few decades of "professional" politicians.

[Tman]

are we low paid compared to what ? other people or in comparison to the cost of living ? to other people like footballers [in your example]

I wasn't comparing anyone to footballers, as I've said before. The point obviously passed you by then, "borders"..

[spoodoo]

All i kinda meant was we bloo dy deserved a little pay rise this year, after all the c rap weve been through.

[borders]

are we low paid compared to what ? other people or in comparison to the cost of living ? to other people like footballers [in your example]

I wasn't comparing anyone to footballers, as I've said before. The point obviously passed you by then, "borders"..

i get your point fully "Tman", i just choose to look at THE point differently .

[Tman]

I forgot to raise this earlier, but that is where you are very wrong

-

What, bizarrely hypothesising about POSTMAN becoming an MP somehow disproves the assertion that the more sought-after your skills the more highly paid you're likely to be?
It's a parallel universe for some on here.............

[smokerjim]

I forgot to raise this earlier, but that is where you are very wrong

-

What, bizarrely hypothesising about POSTMAN becoming an MP somehow disproves the assertion that the more sought-after your skills the more highly paid you're likely to be?
It's a parallel universe for some on here.............

Absolutely, if anybody was to write a job description for "Member of Parliment" than two of the "sought after skills" would surely be having an opinion on current events & wishing to improve life for your fellow man.......two "skills" that cannot be in short supply ( in varying degrees ) across the populace ( and it certainly is not in short supply on RMC )

[DGP1]

That depends on how you look at the question Tman and i read it as "Are we

Good to see I'm off your "ignore" list Links......

You were never on any ignored list i have seen all your posts but because RMC is such a good tool i felt i had to step back from the damage me and my part were playing in bringing RMC into disrepute so i have taken the time to see other things and learn some more about things that interest me. Hope you had a good Xmas.

Tman, you where on my ignore list but I've taken you off it since.

[Tman]

Tman, you where on my ignore list but I've taken you off it since.

Errr, that's really good to know.

{Thinks, "who the feck is this bloke? Never heard of him...." }

Still don't see any connection whatsoever between POSTMAN MP and general skill remuneration though.

[axeman]

Could it be they have to put up with overbearing , pompous ***** like you 'tman'

[Lounge Lizard]

I

dont think using world class footballers vs. McDonalds as a comparison is particularly valid really ( nor is postie v. starving african)...but Lionel Messi is one of a few who helps generate huge amount of revenue for Barcelona and is paid accordingly (albeit grossly inapproriate).

It's not any sort of "comparison", but an extreme example of how the "rarity" (and desirability) of your particular working ability affects your income levels.

Therefore, as Royal Mail are generating large profits, its only fit that the workers who help raise this revenue are paid accordingly. Obviously is wont be tens of millions of pounds as per Mr. Messi, but i think a few extra pounds a week wouldnt be asking too much now would it?

Do you expect a pay cut when the employer loses money then? Are there any public sector workers on this sort of pay deal?

We have to remember when we debate the issue of pay that life is unbalanced and those in control of the wealth are reluctant to distribute it evenly as this would relieve them of power, hence the existence of a working underclass who will always struggle to (relatively) make ends meet.

That's the old worn-out "it ain't my fault I'm poor, it's those nasty rich people's fault" argument. Held some validity up to the war, but since then it's cobblers. No-one made you be a postie, no-one forces you to carry on being a postie, and there's enough courses, night school, OU etc for you to retrain as something skilled and better paid, but of course that requires commitment and effort......

... as if carrying on as a postman in increasingly challenging conditions doesn't also require commitment and effort.

[Tman]

... as if carrying on as a postman in increasingly challenging conditions doesn't also require commitment and effort.

Stunning reply.........

[smokerjim]

Also what happens when everybody in a low paid job, that is disatisfied with their lot goes off for further education and vocational training? They go off and get a better pay and conditions job? Is there an inexhaustable supply of such things? Who comes in and does their previous job - immigrants, or perhaps have a country of minimum wage OU graduates, or should this country survive without road sweepers, postmen, school cooks, nurses, etc?

What about job satisfaction - I was in a job I enjoyed immensley a few years back ( even though the pay wasn't great ), but my co-driver made the difference. When he left due to ill health, I lost the enjoyment....I later managed to get a £2 an hour payrise, but that didn't help, so I jacked it in - I enjoy going out on delivery, spending a few moments with customers, and getting vital messages to customers, so why shouldn't I be paid a reasonable amount for my effort? Why shouldn't I have reasonable conditions under which I do my job? Why if I dislike any part of my job should I be expected to stop moaning, get trained and get another job?

[Tman]

mokerjim"]Also what happens when everybody in a low paid job, that is disatisfied with their lot goes off for further education and vocational training? They go off and get a better pay and conditions job? Is there an inexhaustable supply of such things? Who comes in and does their previous job - immigrants, or perhaps have a country of minimum wage OU graduates, or should this country survive without road sweepers, postmen, school cooks, nurses, etc?

Don't worry, there's an army of poorly educated,low-achieving, under/non skilled people in the UK. There'll never be a shortage of people to do the menial jobs no matter how many take control of their own lives and do some thing they actually enjoy and be better paid for doing it.

Why shouldn't I have reasonable conditions under which I do my job? Why if I dislike any part of my job should I be expected to stop moaning, get trained and get another job?

It's a choice the individual has to make whatever job or employer they have. Put up with the bits you don't like or do something else. Not much point mumbling and moaning for the rest of your working life, if that's all you ever intend doing anyway...

[smokerjim]

mokerjim"]Also what happens when everybody in a low paid job, that is disatisfied with their lot goes off for further education and vocational training? They go off and get a better pay and conditions job? Is there an inexhaustable supply of such things? Who comes in and does their previous job - immigrants, or perhaps have a country of minimum wage OU graduates, or should this country survive without road sweepers, postmen, school cooks, nurses, etc?

Don't worry, there's an army of poorly educated,low-achieving, under/non skilled people in the UK. There'll never be a shortage of people to do the menial jobs no matter how many take control of their own lives and do some thing they actually enjoy and be better paid for doing it.:

That's quite a glib statement you've made there, and historically at least there has always been that "army of underskilled" - ( and to make a glib statement of my own ) it's just that since the Industrial Revolution the whole population have got ideas of rising above their station ( hence the influx of Irish since the 18th/19th Century, W. Indians since "Windrush", and E. Indians Africans since independence - all welcomed by Govt to do the work the indiginous population fell is below them )....wouldn't it be better to increase income for unskilled / semi skilled jobs so the indigenous population might be attracted to do them, not least if that income is clearly above the income gained by legitamate claiming of benefits?

Why shouldn't I have reasonable conditions under which I do my job? Why if I dislike any part of my job should I be expected to stop moaning, get trained and get another job?

It's a choice the individual has to make whatever job or employer they have. Put up with the bits you don't like or do something else. Not much point mumbling and moaning for the rest of your working life, if that's all you ever intend doing anyway...

So, if I enjoy working with those in my immediate area ( including managers ), but do not enjoy the influence and decisions of others far beyond my area, I should either put up or shut up - even though some of the most successful ( and in some cases longest surviving ) employers put employee happiness high on the agenda and even actively seek employee opinion? That's a rhetorical question, cos unless I get a job with John Lewis, I know my opinions will be unheard.....but for a public service, owned by the Government ( who will want my opinion in a few months time ) why should that be the case?