miners strike 1984-lessons to be learnt.

[borders]

that is part of the flaw. i know mark is towards the very left of centre, and quite confrontational about issues concerning his members issues. probably what he did not realise at the time until i contacted him, that some sections of his own members sanctioned exploitation of labour and abuse of general wellbeing.

funny enough, i was in contact with peter hain's office regarding the same issue.. only to be told "oh i didnt know these things were happening".

i think you might need to explain yourself a little bit more ? that is part of what flaw ?? i started this thread hoping people might have some stories about the miners strike !!!!

[johnsouthwales]

hi borders. i hadn't even thought of mark (pcs) until i spotted it. the flaw i was thinking was the one where in the position of mark 'championing' the cps union yet at the same time his union members subject working class to humiliation. and in the case of socialism 'championing' the working class, then it is simply double-standards, whether it is far left, extreme left or even in the middle.

it's a long story, but what happened did actually interfere in an important part of my life, and the manner his members were conducting themselves, which was deplorable. the relevance today is that if this is the present position of socialism compared to 25 years ago, then something is wrong somewhere.

[Tman]

Daily Mirror editor has admitted he told a pack of lies, that is a fact , what the hell has that got to do with your poxy rant about the SWP ??

Oooerr, touchy touchy.

Read it again, I was comparing the unbiased attitude of the "Socialist Worker" with the unbiased attitude of the Mirror. Keep up.....

[borders]

if you stop posting with the only intention of winding people up i will stop getting touchy. check out the Guardian article i put up and if you google the subject you can read any number of biased/unbiased reports on the matter. at the end of the day the man responsible for the smear campaign admitted it was a pack of lies and any number of left /middle/right wing bodies reported the fact in the media.

[borders]

hi borders. i hadn't even thought of mark (pcs) until i spotted it. the flaw i was thinking was the one where in the position of mark 'championing' the cps union yet at the same time his union members subject working class to humiliation. and in the case of socialism 'championing' the working class, then it is simply double-standards, whether it is far left, extreme left or even in the middle.

it's a long story, but what happened did actually interfere in an important part of my life, and the manner his members were conducting themselves, which was deplorable. the relevance today is that if this is the present position of socialism compared to 25 years ago, then something is wrong somewhere.

sorry John, i am missing the link between your bad experience and the relevence to this thread. however , regarding the union is as only good as the people in it. many reps do the job to the best of their abilty which in some cases is not very good. the union is full of people with different views, their ideologises clash all the time. whilst not wishing to belittle your bad experience, i am finding it hard to see your experience as an indication to the present position of socialism today ? the union is only a tool to which the workers can use to better their lives in terms of pay and conditions etc . one individuals experience of the union can be either good or bad or both and is not really a reflection of the unions health at that time. without really reading your story fully it is hard to comment. i had a bad experience years ago when our MC had a repick, the union and management stitched me up over a job when i was perfectly qualified to do it.

[Tman]

="borders"]if you stop posting with the only intention of winding people up i will stop getting touchy.

It's a forum for debate. If you don't want posters to disagree with you then don't post your views...

check out the Guardian article i put up and if you google the subject you can read any number of biased/unbiased reports on the matter. at the end of the day the man responsible for the smear campaign admitted it was a pack of lies and any number of left /middle/right wing bodies reported the fact in the media. :

So he did, but my point was that him admitting that didn't suddenly make Scargill into a successful union leader, whatever went on in the media 25 years ago. Other than by the Far Left, (who still think Class War is real ) he's viewed as an abject failure as a union leader.

[borders]

="borders"]if you stop posting with the only intention of winding people up i will stop getting touchy.

It's a forum for debate. If you don't want posters to disagree with you then don't post your views...

check out the Guardian article i put up and if you google the subject you can read any number of biased/unbiased reports on the matter. at the end of the day the man responsible for the smear campaign admitted it was a pack of lies and any number of left /middle/right wing bodies reported the fact in the media. :

So he did, but my point was that him admitting that didn't suddenly make Scargill into a successful union leader, whatever went on in the media 25 years ago. Other than by the Far Left, (who still think Class War is real ) he's viewed as an abject failure as a union leader.

i dont mind debating posts that are relevent ?? where does it say that Scargill was a successful union leader ? he and the Union were defeated by Thatcher we all know that, however he did not take union funds to line his own pockets and this allegation was the base in which the Mirror ran their smear campaign on.

[johnsouthwales]

i thought it was the sun that did the smearing? i remember that, was a bad crack that.. think around 1990 i switched from the mirror to daily star, cos we always had the mirror in the 70s and 80s, and was picking up the mirror for my read at work in 88 and 89, so something must have happened for me to change, and it could well have been because of that (mirror admitting lies). i really cant remember.

[johnsouthwales]

the only other thing i can remember is when that piers morgan took over the mirror in the mid 90s. another tory sunster..

[borders]

i thought it was the sun that did the smearing? i remember that, was a bad crack that.. think around 1990 i switched from the mirror to daily star, cos we always had the mirror in the 70s and 80s, and was picking up the mirror for my read at work in 88 and 89, so something must have happened for me to change, and it could well have been because of that (mirror admitting lies). i really cant remember.

no it was the Mirror, owned by Maxwell at the time. the Cook Report had a pop as well.

[DGP1]

the only other thing i can remember is when that piers morgan took over the mirror in the mid 90s. another tory sunster..

You're not allowed to mention that man on this site only because most people want to punch him and may damage their computers if they did that

To quote Stephen Fry "countryside: to kill Piers Morgan"

[johnsouthwales]

it's always the same innit... someone causing sh1t, and end up coming back out the woodwork after the dust settles.. whether theyre ex editors, alistair campbell or whoever. like mandelson, he got kicked out and returned. mandelson going to get krap again with him dealing with LDV vans.. i dont think the russians are bothered personally and want to write it off. then again, eco friendly van production will be put back until after the recession, so nobody's the wiser.

[Yahoorsur]

http://normanstrike.wordpress.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A day by day account the strike by Norman.

[borders]

thanks for that Yahoor. just the stuff i was looking for .

[Night Tonic]

Surely no one is seriously comparing the miners strike to postal workers. Oranges and apples. If theres anything to be learnt from it, it failed miserably and probably damaged unions politically ever since.