Talks Resume

[LouBarlow]

this is the bit dingo and his cohorts cant get their head round
many offices and people are working to later finishes already their proposals make it even worse
1. people are bullied threatened on daily basis to complete deliveries re of finish times
2.whole operation relies on forced o-time
3.workload figures manipulated and used to intimidate staff to perform over and above
4 meal relief being abused by both employer and staff as their is "no time"
the guys on shop floor know all this
DO YOU

That is because the union doesn't see beyond London. We have been working till 15.30 for the last two revisions.

[Jamesneil402015]

I thought the Union was meant to represent the needs of the workers. Clearly later starting times is an issue with the majority of the membership. Really disappointed with Dingos comments!. The answer is taking on extra staff for the later workload if it’s so important. It’s an aging work force who clearly are struggling with the workloads. So while the Union heiraky are in their ivory towers they might consider what the membership actually wants.

[hans solo]

this is the bit dingo and his cohorts cant get their head round
many offices and people are working to later finishes already their proposals make it even worse
1. people are bullied threatened on daily basis to complete deliveries re of finish times
2.whole operation relies on forced o-time
3.workload figures manipulated and used to intimidate staff to perform over and above
4 meal relief being abused by both employer and staff as their is "no time"
the guys on shop floor know all this
DO YOU

That is because the union doesn't see beyond London. We have been working till 15.30 for the last two revisions.

lets all ask our head office to apply the same terms and conditions to the rest of the country then
fair and equal workload my arse

[Sugar]

It’s an aging work force who clearly are struggling with the workloads.

Its not an ageing workforce and both the union and RM use it as an elephant in the room/excuse for just about everything. The company probably has the same variations in ages across the board as many other companies this size.

Yes the job is getting more physical the issue is the union hasn't done enough to hold the company to the agreements and mandatory methods of working and OPG's have been hammered in to the ground mentally and physically by a bullying management culture that the company refuses to admit exists.

[TheTrolleyMan]

The CWU needs to protect its members interests not change members interests

[worktotime]

the thing that I don't understand is the cwu knew royal mail where breaking everything in the 2010 agreement ( not replacing f/t ers , using agency staff ,B&h etc , But the cwu never took them to court to put a stop to it all and protect the members and the way staff where being treated everyday , and soon as the cwu did summat wrong royal mail where at the high court , so can you see there will be any difference in any other new agreement that they get , as we all know if it doesn't benefit the company and at dim level it will be swept under the carpet and will the shutters come down at HQ ? AGAIN.

[k979aaa]

Well time will tell if this is an agreement or a strike in the coming hours sooner or not we will find out which it is to be for far to long we have been at the wrong side of past agreements let's pray this one is for us all and not just the few!

[gary1975]

It's all quiet on the western front

[postslippete]

I disagree we did not go for no later starts we went that we did not want a 9-5 job or much later finishes with our members working in the dark.

Remember within any deal we will have a shorter working week which will for the first hour mean delivery staff starting 30 mins later on Monday and Tuesday or possibly 12 minutes later on each of your five days.

If we get a second hour off the working week it mean starting later again.

Whilst progress has been made on all the issues , there is still a lot of detail needed to be worked up and some principles established.

The CWU warned Royal Mail before Christmas If your just waiting to Christmas to be over than we will announcing strike action at the PEC meeting next Tuesday 9th.

Royal Mail said this was not the case as they need industrial stability to win new orders and keep the current contracts. When the CWU announce strike action a number of companies moved suppliers and some have come back and some are waiting . This is why Royal Mail want and need an agreement.

The talks which are happening this week are designed to now move the issues into a form of an agreement as there are not just one set of discussions going on , as there are at times seperate meetings on the pipeline , meetings on Pensions , Pay and SWW and meetings on the deployment of the Agreement Plan .

Why has it taken so long ? If you annayalise every single Mail Centre arrival profile for each post code Area , when it can be processed and how much , it’s arrival time into either MPU or DO and than the automiss of the CSS machine and what time that Work gets into each Delivery Office than it takes some time.

Additionally what time each Mail Centre will get the Later acceptance parcels in and what can connect with normal delivery times and what can’t.

This is the level of detail just on the pipeline which has to be anaylised and tested if there is going to be any agreement.

There is a Joint PEC / Divisional Reps meeting next Tuesday and we will see whether we have an agreement , are close and just need more time or if there are issues which are still not agreed and may need Industrial action to be unlocked.

I noted what dingo had said and have been doing some digging into some of his previous posts dated 3 months ago….



"There are two reasons why Royal Mail are proposing later starts and their proposal is based on everyone starting two hours later than they do now.

The first is that they want to officer all the big posting companies later acceptance into the National Distribution Centre at Daventry hence why start times will move backwards.

The second is that 85% of the Mail centres have 95% of sequencing work available at 0200 and they want to start the sequencing of this work at that time and this will mean that you will get this portion of traffic into your office later. The other issue which will reduce indoor times is that Royal Mail do not want this 95% than thrown into sorting frames just checked and tied up.

The CWU are opppsed to both of these plans as we are opposed to compulsory later starts. The reasons why we are opposed are ;

Royal Mail want only one place where there are later acceptance times and this drives later starts. If Royal Mail agreed that each geographical area had an RDC which accceoted later acceptance times than start times would not need to be pushed back anywhere near 2 hours. Most other companies operate an Hub and Spoke operation instead Royal Mail want the cheapest option and this would push start times back 2 hours.

Secondly all the estimations that Royal Mail have of the work which they would capture from later acceptance times would not equate to more than a extra parcel per walk so there is no justification for everyone moving start times based on their estimation.

Additionally Royal Mail's proposal to bring in 95% of the work later is linked to their strategy of having you merge from three different bundles whilst on delivery too save them indoor time. Again the CWU do not support the strategy of Delivery OPGs merging from three bundles i.e. 95% of your sequenced Mail your first bundle , your second bundle will be the remaining 5% sequencing and Manual and third will be your door to door collated which they now have purchase another machine.

The reality is none of the above will come in from September. What Royal Mail want too do is start trailing them and than rolling out thereafter.

The CWU are opposed to most of Royal Mail's strategy as it is driven by unrealistic saving aspirations which will worsen our members terms and conditions. In addition they are simply playing with capturing growth rather than willing to have loss leaders in place to really go for growth. A shining example of this is Royal Mail have never advertised the Sunday parcel trail in the M25 , customers have no idea there is such a service all we currently deliver is stuff which is due delivery on Monday a day early without any extra charge. 3 years this has been going on and not once has Royal Mail advertised this new service .


And…


"Fish I am not sure why they are not telling us. However the mantra is best pay , best pension , best job etc what they not sating is that they are not offering any pay rise , they are closing the pension scheme and they want to change the pipeline to allow them to cut costs.

They want to change the last letter to 17:00 and delay going out times until around the middle of the day depending on the delivery span. BY doing this they can change the processing window and in particular the late shift which has always been a tight fit due to firms closing , the arrival pattern of Mail and the final dispatch time. This has meant late shifts have traditional had a large percentage of part timers employed from 17:00.

IF the delivery window went back 2 hours and deliveries did not go out untIl around mid-day than Royal Mail believe they can automate more but also reduce costs throughout the pipeline.

They know it is unpopular. Will they move their position ? Well they have not thus far.

THe CWU's position is that we have the words in BT2010 which states the last letter for urban deliveries is 15:00 but the vast majority will finish by 14:30 and most by 14:00. THe CWU also are insisting that current going out on delivery times remain. The CWU have stated that if there are growth opportunities than we will work to ensure we delivery these as in the latest Amazon direct injection trial but there is no need to compulsory change start times for everyone.

UNless Royal Mail move on pensions , pay and their flawed version of the pipeline than we are going to have a dispute.[/quote]


I was just pointing out with clear evidence how the Union's stance has also significantly shifted to what its members want i.e. no later start and finish times

[hans solo]

which is why there is no comments re later starts
capitulation
rm will get a % of everything they want this agreement and the rest in the next one in a couple of years
so get this CWU your members dont want later starts
in fact why dont you represent all your members who dont want later starts the option of leaving the business via vr packages
as you know rm bosses will be off with golden handshakes as will senior cwu positions
cynical me
time will out
look after the people your supposed to

[SpacePhoenix]

The second is that 85% of the Mail centres have 95% of sequencing work available at 0200 and they want to start the sequencing of this work at that time and this will mean that you will get this portion of traffic into your office later. The other issue which will reduce indoor times is that Royal Mail do not want this 95% than thrown into sorting frames just checked and tied up.

Starting the sequenicng that late will never happen, some offices would get their sequenced too late for it to be delivered and the amount run per batch would have to be limited to an absolute maximim of 18 boxes. Some days a DO would end up getting 20+ boxes manual

[cityfc2]

Whats different sometimes get that now

[worktotime]

Whats different sometimes get that now

to right since p&l we get more manual mail in for sorting , that's why the dim is paying staff to come in early on o/t on ips , so theres something not right considering we are told that mail is down ,

[TheTrolleyMan]

Same at our office . Everyone in early doing IPS even though the mails down

[TrueBlueTerrier]

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