Seniority - Is it Logical?

Post by **Trolleyed** » 19 Mar 2016, 21:47

Yet to see an alternative suggestion that is any fairer. In one of my previous jobs, nepotism was the order of the day. At least that can't happen here. If someone has put the time in, I certainly don't begrudge them a few perks. I'm rock bottom in my office by the way.

Chewster · Post by **Chewster** » 19 Mar 2016, 22:38

Also to add on to what a lot of people are saying, it's the fairest way we have. Any kind of testing can always result in favourtism being enforced in some way.

At my last job I actually ended up getting the cushy supervisor/driver role, because I was the only one with a driving licence that wasn't foreign!! We wouldn't want any blatant unfairness like that at RM.

Mezza · Post by **Mezza** » 19 Mar 2016, 22:58

Of course it's the fairest way.

I don't understand people saying things like 'give the more experienced more indoor work like the ips because they know it'.

How do you think they learnt it in the first place?

What do you then do when they leave or retire - you'd have nobody on the sorting at all.

There aren't that many things that seniority effects anyway - why shouldn't staff that have been in the job the longest be rewarded for their loyalty and knowledge?

hampshireman · Post by **hampshireman** » 20 Mar 2016, 14:27

franco1 wrote:The point i was trying to make is not that seniority necessarily gets you an easy walk - although obviously having first say on a walk that you know through experience is easier than others achieves this.

What i am saying is that the allocation of duty walks is not based on performance - and perhaps it should be.
Management and Rep could sit and analyze all the applicants and assess their performance so the best man wins.

If all applicants are equally suitable with regards to performance, attendance etc, then by all means seniority should then play a part in the decision.

Sound fair?

No. Does not sound fair.

What is performance?

Speed on delivery?

Accuracy?

Customer interaction?

etc ; etc..

Please define performance.

Thanks

motherhubbard · Post by **motherhubbard** » 20 Mar 2016, 14:33

hampshireman wrote:

What is performance?

Speed on delivery?

Accuracy?

Customer interaction?

etc ; etc..

Please define performance.

I think you just defined it yourself.

hampshireman · Post by **hampshireman** » 20 Mar 2016, 14:36

motherhubbard wrote:
hampshireman wrote:

What is performance?

Speed on delivery?

Accuracy?

Customer interaction?

etc ; etc..

Please define performance.

I think you just defined it yourself.

A lucid moment.

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 20 Mar 2016, 16:58

I think the more valid question would be..what is a reliable and fair measure of performance?

Not speed of delivery, that's far too open to abuse, possibly discriminatory and potentially dangerous from a health and safety point of view.

Customer satiisfaction/complaints/accuracy surely could depend on the makeup of your delivery.

etc, etc is probably the best measure.

toomuchcoke · Post by **toomuchcoke** » 20 Mar 2016, 18:05

fishtank wrote:I think the more valid question would be..what is a reliable and fair measure of performance?
Not speed of delivery, that's far too open to abuse, possibly discriminatory and potentially dangerous from a health and safety point of view.

Hmm ... Be quick and get a long & difficult duty, be slow and get a shorter & easier delivery. Can't see how that could possibly be abused!

k979aaa · Post by **k979aaa** » 20 Mar 2016, 18:47

It is but not as you know it Jim. Anyway seniority has it's part to play as it make's the feckless and the fornicators and the destructor's of the Business weeded out by time as to new starters who knows their motives or commitment are yet unknown by this could mean Moya Greene! As someone who has worked half my life in this company I would consider seniority as the soul and only tool for retaining the staff which would be essential for the future of royalmail and yet we pass on those skill's for the future for we cannot live forever. But if we opened the flood gate's of seniority who would pass those skills on 5 year fly by night workers who f**k off after change don't suit them even royalmail can see the sense in that.

magicw · Post by **magicw** » 21 Mar 2016, 21:25

Only 4 years in and finally got from reserve to float, so no real axe to grind! I ve done 10 years in the Army and 12 years in the prison service and I think the seniority system is the fairest I ve come across , because it kills cronyism and nepotism dead in the water, and believe it or not in the two other organisations I mentioned its rife.

The only area were I think it stinks and is open to debate is the allocation of leave. Seniors always get first pick, year in year out in our office, and when they try and rotate it , they ( with the support of the Rep ) come up with some bullshit that they are re hashing the leave system and starting from scrattch/ hence the seniors get first pick again.

Still no point in having all that experience if your not going to bring it into play.

ThatsNotPlumb · Post by **ThatsNotPlumb** » 22 Mar 2016, 01:10

DiamondSmiles wrote:Why shouldn't you get an easier walk if you have done lots of years. Trust me if you have done 30+ years, bits of your body are complaining loudly!

Because you're paid at the exact same hourly rate as everyone else. There should be no "easier walks", they should all be equal.

JeremyFisher · Post by **JeremyFisher** » 28 Mar 2016, 21:40

I've always found it to be unfair, I'm 14 years in so I've got a fair bit but in any other business it'd be the best person for the job but that would make too much sense for RM.

I've seen two rural posties each travelling past each other to work 25 miles each way (50 for the day) in work vans and each posty is delivering to the others place of residence, it would save 100 miles a day if they did their own area but oh no, seniority...

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 28 Mar 2016, 21:53

If you look at it logically from a business point of view based on efficiency it would make the most sense to put the "better", "faster" more "efficient" posties on the longest, hardest duties and definitely keep them as reserves.

Just saying....

daveyeff · Post by **daveyeff** » 29 Mar 2016, 15:19

hoo hoo.....that's opened a can of worms

ThatsNotPlumb · Post by **ThatsNotPlumb** » 29 Mar 2016, 15:22

fishtank wrote:If you look at it logically from a business point of view based on efficiency it would make the most sense to put the "better", "faster" more "efficient" posties on the longest, hardest duties and definitely keep them as reserves.

Just saying....

That's more an illogical look at things that wouldn't help either business or employees.

If a DOM told his office this week they'll be judging each person on delivery based on their speed & efficiency with the findings of the results determining who will go on the perceived hardest, longest, most difficult to prep duties, then what do you think will happen? You'll have a whole office of postmen & postwomen looking to underperform each other in an attempt to secure themselves an easier duty.