NATIONAL BRIEFING REPORT

[lovejoy]

I have respect for every single person who posts on here but still nobody comes back with anything other than the 'lets take them on' strategy.

Come on guys/girls... Lets have some real strategies and plans. When do we strike? What happens if RM ride out Christmas strike action?

What is the agreement? Do we think we will have no change?

Saying no for no's sake is easy. Its saying no with a justified, constructive argument that is difficult! I'll be voting yes because i have sound logical and well thought out reasons to do so. Believe me I am as millitant if not more than 99.9% of people but sometimes in the cold light of day you have to make an informed choice!

[krooserman1802]

This will be like the Way Forward, no one will vote for it..or admit voting for it, but it gets in anyway. I have not made my mind up yet. Need a few more days to read into it and also waiting for the pension update.

Who was present at the briefing yesterday then, lets see if we can suss out where each other was..

[ROCKY]

to me we need things set in concrete before any vote,just about everything is down to trials,to be sorted locally,lets have a 6 to 9 month consultation,in other words buy now get screwed lindividually later,its not a deal but a collection of ands ifs and buts,sorry but that is my take on things

[bexhil palace]

Lovejoy you state that sometimes people have to make informed decisions.
Could you explain to me what in the new agreement, do you believe makes it
more palitable than the original.If it's the fact as Dave Ward has stated,that the
union has a bigger say in the way any agreement is to be implemented by RM.
Then i'm sorry to say i feel you are being a tad nieve.
I have been in this job for 21 years, and i can catagorically say that RM, nationally,
and locally have ridden roughshod over any CWU agreements. Sad to say i can't believe
the leopard will change it's spots. Once the flexibility and long & shorts come into effect
they will have a free hand to do as they want. Sadly the CWU executive have shown a
distinct lack of fight, and as such pose no barrier to RM's long term plans for this service.
Like many on here i will vote no, not because i have my f..k em all head on, i just genuinely
fear for all our futures.

[lovejoy]

Lovejoy you state that sometimes people have to make informed decisions.
Could you explain to me what in the new agreement, do you believe makes it
more palitable than the original.If it's the fact as Dave Ward has stated,that the
union has a bigger say in the way any agreement is to be implemented by RM.
Then i'm sorry to say i feel you are being a tad nieve.
I have been in this job for 21 years, and i can catagorically say that RM, nationally,
and locally have ridden roughshod over any CWU agreements. Sad to say i can't believe
the leopard will change it's spots. Once the flexibility and long & shorts come into effect
they will have a free hand to do as they want. Sadly the CWU executive have shown a
distinct lack of fight, and as such pose no barrier to RM's long term plans for this service.
Like many on here i will vote no, not because i have my f..k em all head on, i just genuinely
fear for all our futures.

Of course the union influence is important. Please don't call e=me naive because i see national and local agreements used to good affect everyday. I also see Royal Mail abusing them but I know for a fact we are better off with them!

So you've got your f**k em all head on have you. A really reasonable, well thought out approach. I give up i really do!

[alangate]

If we all do the job properly and not use our cars how can they take hours and make change,s or savings as we are all working to our time ?

[leelatic]

to me we need things set in concrete before any vote,just about everything is down to trials,to be sorted locally,lets have a 6 to 9 month consultation,in other words buy now get screwed lindividually later,its not a deal but a collection of ands ifs and buts,sorry but that is my take on things

Thats my problem it is so vague an agreement its open to abuse by the RM and I just don't trust them.

[strangler]

Thanks for the original post Lovejoy and your reasons for voting yes. Always good to hear another view. One thing I`ve noticed is the union site still says 90 day consultation process. Which is it 90 or 60? CWU are also saying they will consult members on pensions. How will they do this in addition to a ballot or will it just be a few select individuals who`ll be asked for their views?
Another thing that springs to mind is it seems we are to be getting (or are promised anyway) a lot of ballots in the coming months...pensions, D2D, MTSF...Would each of these be a straight forward 1-accept deal on specific issue or 2-strike action or rather a list of various ideas from which to choose a preference?

[Herodotus]

No! You won't give up .. Lovejoy! Like me .. I think that you really like .. hitting your head .. against a brick wall. My own branch has been remiss .. to put it mildly .. in the pursuit & circulation of information during this conflict. Had it not been for the advice & information .. obtained from you & forwarded to my fellow Unit Delivery Reps .. then we would have been 'groping in the dark'!

I have read the 'Agreement' & I have read the 'National Dispute Briefing Report' .. both obtained through you. Definitely food for thought! Please accept the thanks of my branch .. my unit members & my fellow Reps .. who have received info before even my branch officers .. on permanent release .. have even considered taking theit thumbs from their b*ms & their brains .. out of neutral

[lovejoy]

No! You won't give up .. Lovejoy! Like me .. I think that you really like .. hitting your head .. against a brick wall. My own branch has been remiss .. to put it mildly .. in the pursuit & circulation of information during this conflict. Had it not been for the advice & information .. obtained from you & forwarded to my fellow Unit Delivery Reps .. then we would have been 'groping in the dark'!

I have read the 'Agreement' & I have read the 'National Dispute Briefing Report' .. both obtained through you. Definitely food for thought! Please accept the thanks of my branch .. my unit members & my fellow Reps .. who have received info before even my branch officers .. on permanent release .. have even considered taking theit thumbs from their b*ms & their brains .. out of neutral

I won't give up mate! I love it!!!!

[BEMUSED]

Lovejoy ,,,, you must have been at a different briefing than me all but 2 of the speakers were against accepting the agreement

[lovejoy]

Lovejoy ,,,, you must have been at a different briefing than me all but 2 of the speakers were against accepting the agreement

Who says I was at briefing - The 2 people speaking were by far the most convincing? How many BIG branches (who will win / lose this vote) got up? Londons Silence would suggest they are in support?

Come on my friend, a few people picking up o their own personal issues with agreement in addition to the 'vote no meeting' on Saturday hardly represents a national no vote campaign does it??

[semacsorter]

Donation's wanted for a new calculator for Billy Hayes !!

basic pay of £315 pw works out at 16.388pa without rise
basic plus 2.5% from April is £16798
basic plus 5.4% from October is £16831 ( £32 extra )

basic for 18 months from April with 2.5% is £25197
basic pay under new agreement for the 18 months is £25468

oh dear i forgot the 175 we already had !!

If the hierachy are going to (edited) and treat us like idiots over this what other part of the agreement can we trust

I dont know if we can get a better agreement or not and have no idea i will however cast my vote purely on one question and one question only

DO I TRUST THE CWU NOW

guess what ?

[BEMUSED]

1 thing I'l agree with you is, that London's silence was indeed deafening. Let their votes answer that silence!!!

However, 1 point that everyone is clear and everyone agrees that 'Change is coming and we will all have to accept that' , in my opinion "for what our members are about to give up, we have not been compensated enough for , this deal certainly does not compensate for most of that.

[You're late]

CHANGES PHASE 3
We all need to be honest with ourselves and members. IF staffs are making time then Royal Mail will be after that! Royal Mail wanted to introduce the work all hours rule into all offices with immediate affect. The union has pushed them back from this and this will now be dealt with by agreed and monitored trials.

This is one of the main problems with the deal. Most employees have accepted and understand the need to work all the hours we are paid, the problem is what Royal mail management are TELLING US TO DO IN THESE WORK HOURS.
Lip service is given through the deal about the need for respect and better relations between managers and reps, but continue to set dangerous and vastly under-resourced targets.
I will vote no for the deal on the grounds that until both Royal mail and CWU exec understand that the workforce are being bullied and harrassed, it's unacceptable.
Employees are being lied to and intimadated by lower tier management and unless the cwu rep is strong, smaller offices are taking the brunt of Royal mails trials of eg GEO/pegasus, teamworking etc, big offices with strong reps will be fine no doubt, but out here in the backwater swamps it's tough and, at times, very tough.
While Dave Wards "treated like slaves" comment is an insult to slaves and devalues the term slavery, he would have been closer to the mark by focusing on the bullying tatics that are either being ignored, or endorsed, either way
IT'S UNACCEPTABLE and we need our national executive to please reflect this.