Done deal

paulo · Post by **paulo** » 22 Oct 2007, 17:25

where the f..k is the document!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/forum/vi ... php?t=6975

Post by **ade@cambs** » 22 Oct 2007, 17:27

Think it may be on CWU site now

spiderman · Post by **spiderman** » 22 Oct 2007, 17:29

Will not let me log in to the site to get the documents. Any chance of anyone uploading them somewhere please.

strangler · Post by **strangler** » 22 Oct 2007, 17:29

bexhil palace wrote:If the deal is crap, as i fear it will be, we must reject it, and convince the
waverers to stand strong.
Any scab(sorry strikebreaker)feel like moaning about their working conditions
in the future, do me a favour,do out of earshot, i may have to give you a dirty look. :lfo :cfo

Spot on mate.

robd · Post by **robd** » 22 Oct 2007, 17:29

Its on there now,in the members section(LTB)

eian687 · Post by **eian687** » 22 Oct 2007, 17:33

lets hope everyone uses there vote this time
make sure Royal Mail and the CWU are in no doubt what we the MEMBERS want.
don't let royal mail come out with.. well only 80% vote and 15% are not in the union.........so we will bring in what we want again
USE YOUR VOTE
if you don't the don't moan when you have to cover a duty for no pay

catch · Post by **catch** » 22 Oct 2007, 17:36

dongash wrote:if it's shite we vote NO for it and get someone to lead OUR union who isn't in the governments pocket!!!!!!

posted this on another thread but it's equally applicable here:

Whoever you get into a leadership position is going to end up in the same situation (of selling the membership or not behind fairly closed doors) no matter how 'radical' or representative they are - it's a structural issue with trade unions in general, and can't be fixed by tweaking. I don't think there's much option other than to take the stand that Liverpool did - to stay out until the written agreements are in your own hands (and then until the disputes are won) - controlling things directly at a shop floor level independently from the union apparatus. It's a shame things have taken (are taking?) so long, they would've been out nearly three weeks by now, and that only Leeds joined them last week, so that tendency has been both isolated and stretched beyond breaking point when there's not even anything to reject yet.

If you have this stuff going on, then yes it forces the leadership to take firmer stances (or actually come out openly against you which isn't all that rare an occurrence when things get to a certain point), but that's a side effect of self-organisation and militancy and shouldn't be its end goal. The way this site has functioned over the past 3-4 months shows some of the possibilities there are - direct communication between offices, open discussion of tactics etc. I think the barriers have been 1. the lack of anything notable happening in the rest of the public sector, even by now. 2. the expectation that the leadership would at least try to do their job properly (even if that means some concessions and flip flopping) - rather than the incompetence we've seen since August which borders on active hampering or criminal negligence.

It'd be a shame to see the experience of the past 3-6 months and the momentum built up diverted into getting rid of Hayes/Ward, cutting Labour party funding or the rank and filist 'reclaim the union' stuff being promoted by some of the left groups. People in trade unions across the world have been trying stuff like that for decades, and it ends up with the same perennial problems of bureaucratisation and leadership in the end (not that I think you should keep Hayes/Ward or Labour party funding but they're not the fundamental issues at stake). I don't have any great programme as an alternative to this, I'm mainly on here to keep up with events and try to circulate information both ways on how things are going, but the most promising stuff for me is the mass meetings - offices could be holding these to decide on whether to accept the deal or not as Liverpool was (and might still be) planning, rather than rely on carefully worded ballot literature - and this forum can be used to pick the deal apart (as has happened with the previous versions and leaks) to give people ammunition at those meetings. Also there really needs to be a structure set up parallel to the union which can take action on its own initiative including unofficial i/a if it's a stitch up (as looks likely).

With pensions and flexibility, there might not be a next time to prepare for - as soon as there's a two tier workforce (or anything similar), it'll be easy for RM to can it with 5-10 years when enough people are on the new system to swing a vote.

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 22 Oct 2007, 17:46

robd wrote:Its on there now,in the members section(LTB)

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/forum/vi ... php?t=6975

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 22 Oct 2007, 17:46

spiderman wrote:Will not let me log in to the site to get the documents. Any chance of anyone uploading them somewhere please.

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/forum/vi ... php?t=6975

rolf · Post by **rolf** » 22 Oct 2007, 17:49

The deal finally looks like a good one, I for one will be voting it in.

eian687 · Post by **eian687** » 22 Oct 2007, 17:51

i dont think its too good
trials for covering one another .that means it will be forced in

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 22 Oct 2007, 17:51

Any comments on the deal please post on that thread otherwise it gets confusing. Cheers lads.

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/forum/vi ... php?t=6975

Post by **POSTMAN** » 22 Oct 2007, 20:46

New forum to discuss it all in.

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/forum/viewforum.php?f=25