MOYA'S REPLY

[Lincox]

Ah, timed delivery. Must ask Moya and CWU if they can add that one in for us to make us an even more efficient business

[Lincox]

why was it ok to leave stuff in porches before and not now?

When was it ever OK to leave the mail unsecured?
What is the difference between an unlocked porch and a wheelie bin?

No different to posting it in a Tin Letter Box on the wall.

Correct a tin box would be a bad idea. A wall mounted post box with a lock on its counted as secure.

Key needed = Secure. Key not needed = insecure

So, I post mail in the wall mounted POST box which is locked. I have couple of flats, one a tracked non signable item that I squeeze in with a push but although I can get the flap to sit down and the items cannot be seen, the flats are actually retrievable without a key. Joe bloggs the local scumbag has seen me putting the mail in and as soon as I have gone decides to see what I have been putting in and nicks what he can. Householder comes home expecting to receive something important in a large envelope which is not there and starts a complaint.
I have placed this tracked item in what is deemed a Secure facility. What would you think the outcome would be Teebs?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

So, I post mail in the wall mounted POST box which is locked. I have couple of flats, one a tracked non signable item that I squeeze in with a push but although I can get the flap to sit down and the items cannot be seen, the flats are actually retrievable without a key. Joe bloggs the local scumbag has seen me putting the mail in and as soon as I have gone decides to see what I have been putting in and nicks what he can. Householder comes home expecting to receive something important in a large envelope which is not there and starts a complaint.
I have placed this tracked item in what is deemed a Secure facility. What would you think the outcome would be Teebs?

You are covered as long as the item was fully inside the box. If its poking out the top with the cover resting on it then its not secure. If the actual site of the post box is insecure, it doesn't matter to the postie as long as they have delivered to the designated delivery point, its the customer that has taken the risk not the postie.

But people know that when they do it, otherwise they wouldn't be worried about doing it, they've decided to take the risk.

[Lincox]

And how do I prove that it was fully inside the box, or more to the point how do Royal Mail prove it wasn,t.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

And how do I prove that it was fully inside the box, or more to the point how do Royal Mail prove it wasn,t.

You don't need to its the official delivery point so if you do deliver it you are covered.

What Royal Mail proves or not won't concern you.

To be honest if people are that concerned about delivering to an official box, why then are they leaving it in an unsecure porch. However, if you make the decision that it was unsafe to leave then there is not much that the managers can do, except give you unjustified earache.

[Jamesethefirst]

And how do I prove that it was fully inside the box, or more to the point how do Royal Mail prove it wasn,t.

You can't prove a negative.

[edo4442]

I agree, I dont leave parcels anywhere. The only place the parcel is going is into the customers hands when they open their front door, or back to DO.

We all know it would be great to use our local knowledge, to get rid of parcels, but at the end of the day, if you want to pay your bills, and not get sacked, you have to look at covering your backside, and that means what I said above.

Also, deliver to neighbour, I have no time for, so they are deemd as insecure also, as we get refused OT in our DO, and taken down the conduct code if we bring any mail back due to working to our time.

[Lincox]

How long will it be before someone is taken down the conduct line for not doing DTN? It will be interesting to see whether the CWU will support such a situation, and who they will support, Royal Mail or their member.

[edo4442]

How long will it be before someone is taken down the conduct line for not doing DTN? It will be interesting to see whether the CWU will support such a situation, and who they will support, Royal Mail or their member.

Yes I agree, this is an interesting point. How can they take you down the conduct code, though if you feel the neighbour is insecure, or don't have enough time for it ?

[fishtank]

How long will it be before someone is taken down the conduct line for not doing DTN? It will be interesting to see whether the CWU will support such a situation, and who they will support, Royal Mail or their member.

Yes I agree, this is an interesting point. How can they take you down the conduct code, though if you feel the neighbour is insecure, or don't have enough time for it ?

I presume that the conduct code would only apply if it became obvious that you were not attempting to deliver to neighbours at all over a prolonged period. In that case it would probably come under failure to comply with procedures/reasonable instruction. There would have to have been multiple informal "discussions" over the subject first and the paperwork to go with those discussions.

To be honest I can't see them making it stick because they have no way of recording how many neighbours you have actually delivered to or attempted. It's just another fudge by a union that appears to be backing itself into a potentially nasty corner in an attempt to appease both sides of the equation.

[Lincox]

How long will it be before someone is taken down the conduct line for not doing DTN? It will be interesting to see whether the CWU will support such a situation, and who they will support, Royal Mail or their member.

Yes I agree, this is an interesting point. How can they take you down the conduct code, though if you feel the neighbour is insecure, or don't have enough time for it ?

I presume that the conduct code would only apply if it became obvious that you were not attempting to deliver to neighbours at all over a prolonged period. In that case it would probably come under failure to comply with procedures/reasonable instruction. There would have to have been multiple informal "discussions" over the subject first and the paperwork to go with those discussions.

To be honest I can't see them making it stick because they have no way of recording how many neighbours you have actually delivered to or attempted. It's just another fudge by a union that appears to be backing itself into a potentially nasty corner in an attempt to appease both sides of the equation.

I agree that at a tribunal they would probably not be able to produce sufficient evidence, however we all know how nasty these managers can be prior to reaching that point and with a union that appears to be laying down in front of them, the individual will have to endure weeks of abuse and hostility prior to being able to prove a point. Many will not have the will power or courage to last that long.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Interesting question on Yahoo Answers that has some bearing on this thread

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/inde ... 203AAzseK1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm having difficulties with Amazon and Royal Mail, because i ordered a very expensive item yet it was allegedly in my porch and NOT SIGNED FOR, because no one was home.
In terms of British law at what point will i be accountable for the loss of an item.
If you can give my direct quotes and references i would be very grateful and if you need more information just let me know. Also will i be able to get my money back.
Thank you for your time and help.
Kind Regards.