A question for Dingo, Lovejoy or The Truth:

[Just_My_Opinion]

If there is no alternative to a pay cut and more work then I think it's about time my £156.52 a year went to a better cause.

And that should put an end to the argument because that is the feeling unfortunately of many of our members.
People can come on here all day long and talk about stability and protecting full-time jobs and no plan B and the union having a say in the workplace.
But the bottom line is membership levels.

No members....No stability.
No members....No job security
No members....No say in the workplace
No members....No union.
Last one out switch off the lights.

They have members at the minute but yet they seem to have no say in the workplace! So to me it seems 100% irrelevant if they have members or not!

[DirtyHarry]

Dirtyharry, you know as well as anyone how far I am from the CWU and you should also know that it remains the case. More telling is that those who are poles apart are saying the same thing and if you really think this deal is a 'stitch up' if it means more of those around you are likely to hang on to their jobs, then you really are in it for your own interests, not whether the CWU has fought hard for what has been gained or whether it will benefit others.

It is a stitch up, NT. Only a fool would believe there won't be job losses, and those poor buggers that are left behind won't be taking up the slack that will inevitably be left, a fool.
Still, never mind, eh? If this, 2010 and beyond, crap gets voted in, there'll be at least one less union, stuck in the 70's, big mouth, for RM's thuglike management to bother about.
I really believe the GESTAPO, headed by Crozier, Higson, Tolhurst, have got themselves a win/win situation here, so it's little wonder I see you sticking up for Lovejoy and the Truth.

[fishtank]

They have members at the minute but yet they seem to have no say in the workplace! So to me it seems 100% irrelevant if they have members or not!

It may seem irrelevant to you but not to the holder of the CWU purse strings Tony Kearns.

He outlined the problems that the CWU faces with more than 50 per cent of members over 45. Just 21,000 members are under 30. "To just standstill we need to recruit 32 to 33,000 members a year," said Tony. "We have to regenerate this union, if that means dismantling and rebuilding it that is what we must do. We accept the need to redesign the union at top and local level."

I can just see this agreement causing a rush to join.

[Just_My_Opinion]

They have members at the minute but yet they seem to have no say in the workplace! So to me it seems 100% irrelevant if they have members or not!

It may seem irrelevant to you but not to the holder of the CWU purse strings Tony Kearns.

He outlined the problems that the CWU faces with more than 50 per cent of members over 45. Just 21,000 members are under 30. "To just standstill we need to recruit 32 to 33,000 members a year," said Tony. "We have to regenerate this union, if that means dismantling and rebuilding it that is what we must do. We accept the need to redesign the union at top and local level."

I can just see this agreement causing a rush to join.

Is the CWU finished?

[DirtyHarry]

A divorce you say? Does that mean I get half of EVERYTHING the CWU owns??? LoL

If only, eh?

[Just_My_Opinion]

A divorce you say? Does that mean I get half of EVERYTHING the CWU owns??? LoL

If only, eh?

Think I'd rather have my self respect and dignity though. Rather than gain financailly from a company which can only be described as a pathetic sell out.

[Spartacus]

Put the lump sums into D2D Payments. 20.60 for doing 700 address points while the fellow next door only does 200 and gets the same payment as me. Lovejoy the figures don't add up.

It all depends how you look at it.
The '700' and '200' posties presumably both work at the same pace and for the same number of hours, so why oh why should one have been paid about £1,100 a year more than the other ?

It will be interesting to see how this can be managed with respect to indoor workload.
With 1 door to door the difference in prep would be 500 items and you would expect workload to reflect this.
But with 3 items the difference would be 1500 items.Would indoor workload reflect this to?

Managers will ignore that fact and continue to bully people into working in their own time. Do you think that delivery spans will change week to week depending on whether you have 1 x 500 D2D items OR 5 x 500 D2D items? No I don't think so either. You'll simply have to do the extra in your own time OR be conducted for failing to meet standards.

At the weekly staffing meeting the number of D2D would be available along with forecast traffic, it's not a great jump to see how much prep should be required for each duty, if that's over and above the usual then the local rep and DOM have to make sure that sufficient time is allowed to complete the duty, this is going to have an impact on either the IPS or the outdoor element of each duty, how that's resolved will be interesting to see. Could be a case of extra bodies on the IPS to get it finished earlier to allow more time on prep, could be a case of someone with no D2D that week assisting on prep, could be a case of agreed overtime to complete the delivery, could be an opportunity for lapsing, there's 101 ways to resolve it, but it should be agreed.

Each week will be a different challenge for the local reps, the resource/staffing meetings are going to be very important and any reps who aren't having them are going to be at a huge disadvantage if this agreement goes through.

[lovejoy]

Been away for a few hours and expected to come back to a whole host of PMs with people wanting to debate the agreement.......... NOTHING.

Easy to hide behind a computer isn't it.

[DirtyHarry]

Is the CWU finished?

Well on it's way to being, I'd say.
I remember after the 2007 Pay & Modernisation debacle, a lot of my colleagues were aghast, but said they'd persevere as our union wouldn't be so stupid next time around.
2010, and lo and behold, what do we have?
Yet another stitch-up. I'm holding back the more impatient of my colleagues until after they've had a chance to vote NO, but if it goes against us, they, and I, will leave the CWU to it's partnership with RM management.

[Just_My_Opinion]

Been away for a few hours and expected to come back to a whole host of PMs with people wanting to debate the agreement.......... NOTHING.

Easy to hide behind a computer isn't it.

Typically CWU tactic. Do as much as possible behind closed doors. That has worked for us.

[DirtyHarry]

Easy to hide behind a computer isn't it.

Blimey, I recall a doughnut saying exactly the same thing to me once.

[lovejoy]

Been away for a few hours and expected to come back to a whole host of PMs with people wanting to debate the agreement.......... NOTHING.

Easy to hide behind a computer isn't it.

Typically CWU tactic. Do as much as possible behind closed doors. That has worked for us.

The union will never convince everyone but I can tell you that at almost every reps / members meeting that has been held so far the huge majority have left the room fully behind the decision of the negotiators.

When is your office / branch meeting?

[lovejoy]

Easy to hide behind a computer isn't it.

Blimey, I recall a doughnut saying exactly the same thing to me once.

DirtyHarry........ You know that your branch and division does things the right way and I know that when a meeting is called that you will be there to have your say. Thats the way it should be.

[Just_My_Opinion]

Been away for a few hours and expected to come back to a whole host of PMs with people wanting to debate the agreement.......... NOTHING.

Easy to hide behind a computer isn't it.

Typically CWU tactic. Do as much as possible behind closed doors. That has worked for us.

The union will never convince everyone but I can tell you that at almost every reps / members meeting that has been held so far the huge majority have left the room fully behind the decision of the negotiators.

When is your office / branch meeting?

When are you going to realise too little too late? It's over. We were let down in 2007. We were let down in November for the now infamous 'interim agreement'. Now the absolute mother of all let downs in March 2010. The members are sick sore and tired of the constant pathetic agreements and excuses which CWU HQ keep feeding us. Enough really is enough.

[lovejoy]

Been away for a few hours and expected to come back to a whole host of PMs with people wanting to debate the agreement.......... NOTHING.

Easy to hide behind a computer isn't it.

Typically CWU tactic. Do as much as possible behind closed doors. That has worked for us.

The union will never convince everyone but I can tell you that at almost every reps / members meeting that has been held so far the huge majority have left the room fully behind the decision of the negotiators.

When is your office / branch meeting?

When are you going to realise too little too late? It's over. We were let down in 2007. We were let down in November for the now infamous 'interim agreement'. Now the absolute mother of all let downs in March 2010. The members are sick sore and tired of the constant pathetic agreements and excuses which CWU HQ keep feeding us. Enough really is enough.

Ok then you just sit behind your computer gobbing off and refusing to take part in a real debate about the future of our industry, our jobs and our futures...