Poll : Are we all ready for a National Strike?

[Brandy]

SOB I'm just a stupid Postman who should tug his forelocks and thank ee for me job kind sir. This job stank 30 years (and more I'm told) ago but we fought hard for the conditions that you now have and are willing to toss away, you..............I was going to write a derogitary term there but steeled myself.

Just ignore SOB

[postslippete]

I have risen to your bait SOB I don't know what world you live in but if you honestly think this company will look after their workers you are in my opinion deluded if it wasn't for the work force standing together we would be on the worst conditions royal mail could get away with

Absolutely spot on !!!!!!! SOB shame no one shares the same opinion with you 85% of people on this group willing to strike, says a lot about a workforce that is sick of the RM politics !!

So like a sheep you choose to follow 85% of people who voted for industrial action in a forum poll.

I am not interested in repeating the union line over and over just because it might be popular to do so. 85% of the public might say the rich should pay more taxes, but that doesn't mean it is right or indeed an accurate reflection of public opinion.

If you hate your job so much then you know where the door is. There are many, many others out there who would jump at the opportunity to be paid what you are paid for unskilled labour.

Many others out there who would jump at the opportunity ....... so WHY ARE MOST OFFICES UNDERSTAFFED
AND LAPSING EVERYDAY? Putting more pressure on people !!

The world of work has changed enormously for millions of employees in the last few decades. If you don't like what Royal Mail offers you then you know where the door is. Find me other unskilled jobs that offer the pay and benefits that Royal Mail offers. You might struggle.

So what are you saying? That you would prefer it if we are all working for peanuts with crap terms and conditions, simply because we are now working in a privatised company with shareholders in an unskilled job??

[jetblack]

If the question were not one of skilled/unskilled but based on the utility to society I could name very many jobs that are better paid than that of the postman. And most of the people who are in those jobs are there not because of skill level but because they have the educational tickets. Having educational tickets is most times a function not of merit but of life chances available to the individual - that is a fact.
So I, for example, after not having had the life chances as those more fortunate than myself, and so the educational qualifications, am supposed to be punished yet further by having to either be unemployed (because there are far fewer jobs available than the number chasing them) or be lucky enough to have a job on a zero hours contract and not receive sick pay when I'm ill.
Meanwhile, Mr.Zero Utility to Society is getting £240,000 a year plus bonus for creating car debt (he doesn't sell it mind you - there's someone else doing that for £240,000) all cos his parents could send him to the right school.
Yet I contribute whilst he is a part of the reason the country is going down the pan.

We do a worthwhile and honest job - and doing it well is a skill - we form a union because we have more in common than what seperates us, we know our real value even if our employer doesn't, and we are prepared to stand together so as to stop anyone exploiting us.

Help yourself by helping us - join the union.

[aiden01]

If the question were not one of skilled/unskilled but based on the utility to society I could name very many jobs that are better paid than that of the postman. And most of the people who are in those jobs are there not because of skill level but because they have the educational tickets. Having educational tickets is most times a function not of merit but of life chances available to the individual - that is a fact.
So I, for example, after not having had the life chances as those more fortunate than myself, and so the educational qualifications, am supposed to be punished yet further by having to either be unemployed (because there are far fewer jobs available than the number chasing them) or be lucky enough to have a job on a zero hours contract and not receive sick pay when I'm ill.
Meanwhile, Mr.Zero Utility to Society is getting £240,000 a year plus bonus for creating car debt (he doesn't sell it mind you - there's someone else doing that for £240,000) all cos his parents could send him to the right school.
Yet I contribute whilst he is a part of the reason the country is going down the pan.

We do a worthwhile and honest job - and doing it well is a skill - we form a union because we have more in common than what seperates us, we know our real value even if our employer doesn't, and we are prepared to stand together so as to stop anyone exploiting us.

Help yourself by helping us - join the union.

and please just ignore sob,s post,s he may go away

[woopesh]

If the question were not one of skilled/unskilled but based on the utility to society I could name very many jobs that are better paid than that of the postman. And most of the people who are in those jobs are there not because of skill level but because they have the educational tickets. Having educational tickets is most times a function not of merit but of life chances available to the individual - that is a fact.
So I, for example, after not having had the life chances as those more fortunate than myself, and so the educational qualifications, am supposed to be punished yet further by having to either be unemployed (because there are far fewer jobs available than the number chasing them) or be lucky enough to have a job on a zero hours contract and not receive sick pay when I'm ill.
Meanwhile, Mr.Zero Utility to Society is getting £240,000 a year plus bonus for creating car debt (he doesn't sell it mind you - there's someone else doing that for £240,000) all cos his parents could send him to the right school.
Yet I contribute whilst he is a part of the reason the country is going down the pan.

We do a worthwhile and honest job - and doing it well is a skill - we form a union because we have more in common than what seperates us, we know our real value even if our employer doesn't, and we are prepared to stand together so as to stop anyone exploiting us.

Help yourself by helping us - join the union.

You know there are evening schools? There is absolutely nothing stopping you getting GCSE's, A-Levels and degrees part time around your Royal Mail job. That you choose not to do so and bemoan a lack of opportunities because of your background speaks more about your attitude than any real limitation placed on you by society.

While I agree that posties shouldn't have their rights and benefits trod all over, creating a strawman as a basis for arguing against proposed Royal Mail cuts really doesn't help anyone. Many educated people put in years of sacrifice to achieve their qualifications and perform duties essential to society, even if that benefit isn't readily apparent to you.

I don't have to explain to you not all people are in a position to buy a car without a loan, yet need a car to get to their job, ferry their kids around etc. If qualified people didn't exist to create car finance, what would happen to people who need a car but aren't in a position to buy one outright?

[Tman]

You know there are evening schools? There is absolutely nothing stopping you getting GCSE's, A-Levels and degrees part time around your Royal Mail job. That you choose not to do so and bemoan a lack of opportunities because of your background speaks more about your attitude than any real limitation placed on you society.

Absolutely.
"I've got a sh*t job and it's all your (or society's) fault".
The standard whine of the waster.
It's why Marxism was so popular...you got as much (in theory) as the next person but never had to work at it.
Easy to see why the clever, the ambitious and the naturally gifted couldn't wait to escape those Marxist Utopias.
{Speaking of which, how's Venezuela doing these days, Jeremy? }

[jetblack]

You know there are evening schools? There is absolutely nothing stopping you getting GCSE's, A-Levels and degrees part time around your Royal Mail job. That you choose not to do so and bemoan a lack of opportunities because of your background speaks more about your attitude than any real limitation placed on you by society.

With respect, you are missing the point. The point is that in a free market where educational qualifications are the currency of the jobs market you will always have those that are disadvataged by circumstances outwith their control, and so start out with little currency in their pocket, so to speak. Why do you think well off parents pay a quarter of a million in school boarding fees a year ? Cos the food is good ? They are buying the advantage over your kids old son, thats why.
The odds are stacked against the ordinary working man and woman - always have been. The idea that we live in a meritocracy whereby people achieve according to their worth is a myth - no amount of nightschool and student debt will alter that. And to be honest I'm getting a little long in the tooth for $50k student debt and living with my mam and dad.

Many educated people put in years of sacrifice to achieve their qualifications and perform duties essential to society, even if that benefit isn't readily apparent to you.

It is apparent to me - and I never said otherwise.

Long story short, you say that you deserve your sufferings (or that I do at least) - I say I don't.

Man up old chap

If qualified people didn't exist to create car finance, what would happen to people who need a car but aren't in a position to buy one outright?

Are you having a laugh here ? Or just me saying black you saying white ? Its already been pointed out once today that I lack a sense of humour, so maybe this is a joke of some sort ?

[fishtank]

You lot are all too young to remember the dark side ( postmanchat ) and Night Tonic, now he was a real SOB. Same s**t, different day.

[woopesh]

With respect, you are missing the point. The point is that in a free market where educational qualifications are the currency of the jobs market you will always have those that are disadvataged by circumstances outwith their control, and so start out with little currency in their pocket, so to speak. Why do you think well off parents pay a quarter of a million in school boarding fees a year ? Cos the food is good ? They are buying the advantage over your kids old son, thats why.
The odds are stacked against the ordinary working man and woman - always have been. The idea that we live in a meritocracy whereby people achieve according to their worth is a myth - no amount of nightschool and student debt will alter that. And to be honest I'm getting a little long in the tooth for $50k student debt and living with my mam and dad.

Sorry to say mate, its this sort of attitude that keeps working class, working class. I don't understand why you can't see it but I'm starting to think it will be futile to try and convince you otherwise. Of course there is nothing wrong with being a working person, but to bemoan your circumstance at the expense of the educated and society in general is a bit rich for my taste. Good luck to you sir.

[clashcityrocker]

So talking of education - what happened to the Union Learning Reps?
I thought the whole basis of the union movement was to provide educational opportunities to allow people to progress and work their way out of poverty.
Places like the South Wales Miners' library?

[G051238]

When is the strike going to be happen?

[jetblack]

Sorry to say mate, its this sort of attitude that keeps working class, working class.

No - its inequalities in the distribution of wealth, power and opportunity that keeps the working class working class. And attitudes such as yours merely legitimate those inequalities by laying the blame at the door of the lazy and unambitious working class for their 'lowly' position, rather than at the door of a rigged system.

Lets not forget that the whole reason I brought up the education issue at all was in response to SOB undermining our position as postpeople by saying that as we are 'unskilled', we get what we deserve and should be happy with it. You are kind of going along with him.

Good luck to you sir.

And to you sir - may you earn enough to send your kids to private school, thereby enabling future generations of woopesh's to say goodbye to the working class forever

[Tman]

Just because kids don't go to some prestigious public school it doesn't mean they're destined for a life of tower-block penury, and to say otherwise is to demean the many thousands who do well and achieve.

Typical blindness of the Far Left, and avoiding any personal responsibility for personal circumstances and life choices.
I used to detest Churchill for this quote alone-

"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, the gospel of envy, and it's quality is the equal sharing of misery", but as time passes I can see that the old bastard had a point.

[glfp]

Sorry to say mate, its this sort of attitude that keeps working class, working class.

No - its inequalities in the distribution of wealth, power and opportunity that keeps the working class working class. And attitudes such as yours merely legitimate those inequalities by laying the blame at the door of the lazy and unambitious working class for their 'lowly' position, rather than at the door of a rigged system.

Lets not forget that the whole reason I brought up the education issue at all was in response to SOB undermining our position as postpeople by saying that as we are 'unskilled', we get what we deserve and should be happy with it. You are kind of going along with him.

Good luck to you sir.

And to you sir - may you earn enough to send your kids to private school, thereby enabling future generations of woopesh's to say goodbye to the working class forever

Ambition, drive, determination, a positive mindset can far out weight qualifications.
Plenty have picked up qualifications later in the day.

[fishtank]

Arguments about socialism vs capitalism are really just an unnecessary and irrelevant distraction, Strikes and the threat of industrial action are really just an extension of the capitalist model anyway, It's a negotiation process in exactly the same way that any supplier will attempt to negotiate the best price for his/her goods at market, The supplier always has the right to withdraw their goods if they don't think the price is right but always bearing in mind goods without a buyer are no use to anyone.

It's a simple supply/demand situation and despite what SOB says you don't enter that process by telling the buyer that you'll accept the first offer on the table no matter how bad a deal that is for you, of course neither do you allow political dogma to blind you to the fact that at the end of the day you need to sell your goods. Both parties understand that and the game will be played out in the usual way. The only people that don't really understand that are the zealots on either side who will continue their irrelevant discussions long after the deal has been done.