UPDATE FROM HQ

[patrickstar]

i have worked in a mail centre for 22 years,the future looks unbelievably bleak if the union are agreeing to closing half of the mail centres,,,i will vote no just because of that
what redundancy packages will the union be securing for senior and junior people alike?

[Cut Off King]

Dingo, what is the timetable for the comming week. Is there more talks or is an anouncement due monday?

and will VR packages be available to all F/T staff who want to leave reguardless of where they work

[HootyMacBoob]

Fishtank like I said I will wait to make my judgement what I do challenge is this

If walk sequencing is introduced the only way to stop later saturdays happening is if you stop them being used on a saturday. At the moment Royal Mail are refusing to do so in any case you would have to have a load more hours in the office on a saturday if they did decide to stop the machines on a saturday. Most M3 products have been lost due to downstream access.

The other is if you are going to lose hours on the indoor element both IPS and Prep then how else can you protect full time jobs ? You either lenghten the span and do door to door within workload or you agree that most jobs are part time instead of a commitment that 75% of jobs have to be full time.

I am happy as anyone knows me to fight the employer but until we understand the above two points then what are we fighting for ??????????

Your commitment to 75% full time jobs is meaningless to me dingo,Our D.O sits at 50% and having spoken with management this will not be increased.So.
Does that mean we do not need D2D in workload or longer delivery spans?......................
No because management have already moved ahead with the planning of longer deliveries.
Now we already have WSM on a saturday does that mean we can keep our early saturday finish?....................
No because management have already moved ahead with the planning of longer and later saturdays.
Can we opt out of these parts of the agreement?...No i didn't think so.

Longer delivery spans and increased D2D will make this job unbearable for a large number of members.

That is a worsening of members terms and conditions and that in my opinion is worth fighting for.

Fishtank Your office needs you to step up to the mark and go for CWU Unit rep,s post.

[tomangoe]

Our office is a combined Mail Centre and Delivery Office which already has Walk Sequencing.However,it is not sequenced on Mondays or Saturdays.we just get the machine bundles on these days and on Saturdays we have an early 04.30 start,11.30 finish.All this works well so why change it ?
Secondly,I don't quite understand this D2D into workload however many we get.We already prep and deliver them in Royal Mails time so what difference will it make ? We can also deliver 3 X D2D plus any number of election leaflets now so what difference will removing the cap have on jobs?
Thirdly,we used to have an agreement on the number of Part Time jobs in the office but that went years ago.Are there any offices that have taken any new starters on Full Time-I think not! All new starters are taken on Part time and many Full timers are asked to "Buy Down" their hours to Part Time.It's gonna take a mighty U-turn by Royal Mail if the Union thinks more hours and Full time jobs will come in !

[Big Daz]

Weve got a Ft who was givien the heave ho on stage 3 sick leave, going to employment tribunal in April but without HQ backing. If she wins RM say she will get her job back, do i belive them? Sort of, we have a temp contract ending in April.

If the tribunal comes out in favour of our ex member then I can see RM keeping their word but getting rid of the temp contract person.


Isnt time CWU persauded RML to start offering proper contracts?

[naughton]

will we know the order the walk sorted mail will be sequenced in BEFORE any re-pick and will this order be permenant ,or subject to flexibility.

[Martin Walsh]

i have worked in a mail centre for 22 years,the future looks unbelievably bleak if the union are agreeing to closing half of the mail centres,,,i will vote no just because of that
what redundancy packages will the union be securing for senior and junior people alike?

The National Union has never and will never agree to mail centre or RDC clousres. However Royal Mail has closed 20 in the last 20 years and they have a plan to close a lot more. The Hooper report said that they could do with just half of the number of mail centres.

The problem we all know with mail centres is that due to downstream access, one outward pass and a reduction in outward in mail centres that there is under capcity in a lot of mail centres and RDCs.

The Union would love to protect every mail centre but you know we cant, so the union has agreed a consultation process which allows mail centres to argue for the rentention of their mail centres. Plus improved MTSF to cater for mail centres closing.

Look does anyone believe we will not see mail centre closures even if we dont have an agreement. In London we have seen 6 mail centres close since 1994 , the North West are seeing a number of mail centres close as did the thames valley and Covertry and Milton Keynes.

People can blame the union for lots of things but we cant invent work to keep every mail centre open as much as we would all like to do.

[patrickstar]

i have worked in a mail centre for 22 years,the future looks unbelievably bleak if the union are agreeing to closing half of the mail centres,,,i will vote no just because of that
what redundancy packages will the union be securing for senior and junior people alike?

The National Union has never and will never agree to mail centre or RDC clousres. However Royal Mail has closed 20 in the last 20 years and they have a plan to close a lot more. The Hooper report said that they could do with just half of the number of mail centres.

The problem we all know with mail centres is that due to downstream access, one outward pass and a reduction in outward in mail centres that there is under capcity in a lot of mail centres and RDCs.

The Union would love to protect every mail centre but you know we cant, so the union has agreed a consultation process which allows mail centres to argue for the rentention of their mail centres. Plus improved MTSF to cater for mail centres closing.

Look does anyone believe we will not see mail centre closures even if we dont have an agreement. In London we have seen 6 mail centres close since 1994 , the North West are seeing a number of mail centres close as did the thames valley and Covertry and Milton Keynes.

People can blame the union for lots of things but we cant invent work to keep every mail centre open as much as we would all like to do.

Will the MTSF agreement still exist after this year for reduncancy packages?
Will there be a transfer of mail centre employees to DO if they want to?
The reality looks bad and these issues need to be raised after the horror stories from the employees of the NW ,oxford,milton keynes!!

[Danelectro]

I still havnt heard a good reason why the whole network cant be redesigned to get the walk sequencing machines starting earlier and therefore deliveries kept earlier in the day.Also throw as much d2d at me me as you want but there has been no mention of how fair workloads are to be calculated.Under the present regime longer deliveries and more d2d would kill a lot of +40 posties.Also this we are not living in the real world argument was used by tony blair to implement some crazy policies like PFI under new labour.The fact is there is no major party standing up for people earning under 25k a year and when you get unions with leaders earning huge sums of money and throwing in the towel then where do people in Royal Mail and other industries turn to?By all means say this is the best deal to be had but to not underline the political thinking behind all these changes and why in the long run this has to be challenged is burying your head in the sand.

[DirtyHarry]

Here is the latest agreement, (as dingo and lovejoy wish not share this info, i believe all members have a right to know) this could and most probably will change slightly.

1) D2d's into workload with no cap on how many sets
2)£30 a week pay rise for delivery staff (due to D2d's)including any allowances you already get.
3) £500 in April
4) £1000 when revision is complete
5) No delivery span, could be 3 or 4 or 5 hours this will come down to local agreement.
6) there will be a menu of delivery patterns which will be agreed locally.
7) 3 year pay deal
1st year 1.5% and 40 minute shorter working week
2nd year 1.5% and 40 minute shorter working week
3rd year 3.5% and 40 minute shorter working week
in toal 6.5% pay deal over 3 years and a total 2hrs less on a working week.

8)50% of mail centres to shut and 50% of rdc to shut a total of 12,000 job losses.
9) Saturdays to be a normal working day is still to be agreed but will be sorted out locally in your office revision.

I believe this to be as it was as of Friday, any other updates will be confirmed as of when i get them.
The ballot remains live. if this is not excepted by members then cwu will ask yo to go back on the gate.
regards

Close but you left out two other lump sums and got a few other things wrong including the pay rises and the shorter working week.

So if we are going out on strike again ? Then what are we going on strike for ? To smash up walk sequencing so it dont run 6 days per week. Plus like I have said before look at your normal traffic figures for a saturday now and you will see that it is not much different than a Wednesday , Thursday or Friday and yet most offices complete it in less hours.

Plus do you really believe that as soon as the cap is lifted we will suddenly see every office getting more than 3 items pers week , this will only be achieved if the product is re launched
and can you imagine any other company or trade union saying we dont want any more work , we will be happy to loss thousands of jobs as long as you dont increase the cap on door to door.

Yes there will be hard choices to make , and of course we would love to say that reject the deal and Royal Mail will stop their work plan changes and the automation but you know thats wishful thinking.

Royal Mail's work plan changes need to be revised. The work plan that bosses, who do less hours, less work, and from MON-FRI, no SAT for them, than we the REAL workers do, does absolutely nothing to improve the working conditions of front line staff.
How many times must we tell you, and your buddies in Royal Mail senior management, that an increase on outdoor working is totally unacceptable?
If Royal Mail think that all they have to do, is present the suckers on the CWU negotiating team with what amounts to a fate acompley, every time they want to shaft the workers, then we are truly fucjked. Next time Royal Mail's conmen say, "sorry guys, yah, but we've spent squillions on new machinery, and our whizzkids fresh out of uni have come up with a really wizard wheeze with regard to stuffing up work patterns, so there's not a lot you can really do, other than go to your members, wring your hands, and tell them that's it, there's nothing to do but accept, accept, accept, and here's a few bob for the massive inconvenience," tell those idiots to get stuffed.
Before they got the new machinery, before they devised a work plan for a business they obviously have little knowledge of, they should have decided to consult with the CWU, and ensure that the business moved forward without further wrecking the working conditions of Britain's hardest workers.
I am utterly disappointed that the fantastic backing given by members, not just in the last strikes, but the strikes of 2007, has been thrown out with the bath water, by weak, corrupt, inept, so-called senior officers.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Secondly,I don't quite understand this D2D into workload however many we get.We already prep and deliver them in Royal Mails time so what difference will it make ? We can also deliver 3 X D2D plus any number of election leaflets now so what difference will removing the cap have on jobs?

Although we should prep and deliver them in RMs time they are not at the moment included in traffic figures for either the office or the walk. This means when they test the walks (or duty holder), or plot them with pegasus then at the moment they are effectivly ignored. With them now being officially included in the workload this means D2Ds will be measured as part of the traffic and will be included when plotting or designing new walks. At least that's how I understand it anyway.

Dingo - I do have one question with the later starts and "Normal Working Day" Saturdays what plans do RM have to cope with Sub and Crown POs closing at 1230 and in some places half days in mid week. Or will it be another "suck it and see" exercise, which the boots on the ground will have to sort out.

[DirtyHarry]

Dingo are you a walking postie and do you work Saturdays?

Of course he's not a walking postie, and I bet he has better things to do than get out his bed on a saturday only to come to work, because he doesn't have to.
The changes he tells us that we HAVE to accept, won't affect him personally in a month of sundays.

[Martin Walsh]

I still havnt heard a good reason why the whole network cant be redesigned to get the walk sequencing machines starting earlier and therefore deliveries kept earlier in the day.Also throw as much d2d at me me as you want but there has been no mention of how fair workloads are to be calculated.Under the present regime longer deliveries and more d2d would kill a lot of +40 posties.Also this we are not living in the real world argument was used by tony blair to implement some crazy policies like PFI under new labour.The fact is there is no major party standing up for people earning under 25k a year and when you get unions with leaders earning huge sums of money and throwing in the towel then where do people in Royal Mail and other industries turn to?By all means say this is the best deal to be had but to not underline the political thinking behind all these changes and why in the long run this has to be challenged is burying your head in the sand.

Sadly the fact remains that most customers post late in the afternoon and evening. The first opportunity for the walk sequencing machines to operate is when the mail centres clear they inwards mainly intra and neighbour work , plus mail sort and second class etc which is appoxmately midnight. The second 40% of work is not avialable as it is being transported from other part of the country (distant mail. ) This is scheuduled to be clear of a mail centre at appoxmately 4 40 in the morning and then of course each batch of work has to have 3 passes.

So unless you change the above including when firms and customers post then you cant resolve the problem. In addition such a change would have a drastic impact on mail centres and RDCs and network.

[2old4this]

I still havnt heard a good reason why the whole network cant be redesigned to get the walk sequencing machines starting earlier and therefore deliveries kept earlier in the day.Also throw as much d2d at me me as you want but there has been no mention of how fair workloads are to be calculated.Under the present regime longer deliveries and more d2d would kill a lot of +40 posties.Also this we are not living in the real world argument was used by tony blair to implement some crazy policies like PFI under new labour.The fact is there is no major party standing up for people earning under 25k a year and when you get unions with leaders earning huge sums of money and throwing in the towel then where do people in Royal Mail and other industries turn to?By all means say this is the best deal to be had but to not underline the political thinking behind all these changes and why in the long run this has to be challenged is burying your head in the sand.

Sadly the fact remains that most customers post late in the afternoon and evening. The first opportunity for the walk sequencing machines to operate is when the mail centres clear they inwards mainly intra and neighbour work , plus mail sort and second class etc which is appoxmately midnight. The second 40% of work is not avialable as it is being transported from other part of the country (distant mail. ) This is scheuduled to be clear of a mail centre at appoxmately 4 40 in the morning and then of course each batch of work has to have 3 passes.

So unless you change the above including when firms and customers post then you cant resolve the problem. In addition such a change would have a drastic impact on mail centres and RDCs and network.

Could I ask if you personaly think this deal will be accepted by the member's.

[clashcityrocker]

Could I ask if you personaly(dingo) think this deal will be accepted by the member's.

Of course it will. It has a potential sweetener of £1500.And the MC's and RDC's (whatever one of them is) are going to bear the brunt of redundancies.
It looks like it's all good news for a delivery postie under 35.
(I find that once you get past 35 you begin to notice the body slowing down and you feel the ravages of time. Intimations of mortality and all that.)