Come on Truth give us your thoughts

[dvbuk55]

Was everyone in complete agreement that this is a good deal in bournemouth lovejoy

To say everyone was in agreement would be......... a lie.

To say that the majority went away thinking perhaps in a different frame of mind than when they arrived is true. The presentation from Bob Gibson went down very well and gave an excellent analysis of the D2D issue. This will be sent to all branches.

Every local rep in the UK will have a meeting with the CWU Officers over the next couple of weeks and every branch has been asked to call members meetings with PEC speakers etc.

Whatever the outcome these debates must be had and the best place for that is face to face.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the PEC sent out when the 2007 agreement was in doubt.

This isn't 2007 there is no trust. This deal is dead in the water and you'd better believe it.

Time will tell on that one

I see you share the arrogance of the leadership - even the 2007 deal was better than this - and yet it brought us to this situation. The union has lost sight of its raison d'etre and believes it should exist in its own right. Well when the money stops flowing, so will the milk, honey and gravy.

[Big Daz]

Andy

One thing RM wanted was to scrap election material payment and replace it with a £1 a week payrise.

Now in normal times that is worth aprox £400 based on 4 years between general elections, but we are close to a GE and with the prospect of hung parliment there could be a further GE later this year or early next year, so in the short term it was a bad offer.


I was at a meeting today with a PEC member and there was no hard sell, just genuine, honest explanations and sharing of information.

[cityfc]

Andy

One thing RM wanted was to scrap election material payment and replace it with a £1 a week payrise.

Now in normal times that is worth aprox £400 based on 4 years between general elections, but we are close to a GE and with the prospect of hung parliment there could be a further GE later this year or early next year, so in the short term it was a bad offer.


I was at a meeting today with a PEC member and there was no hard sell, just genuine, honest explanations and sharing of information.

How many weeks in your year,52 in mine,so 52 x £1 = £52 x 4 years = £208

[REDLETTER]

Unlimited D2D will mean vastly improved sales for the wood pulp industry. Vote yes for more profitable sawdust

More work for the Bin Men................Vote Yes for Council Cuts!

Seriously though there will be more jobs created at the D2D Distrubutrion Centre, unless the D2Ds come pre-packaged!

More Drivers to move them around to the DOs

More indoor staff at Delivery Offices to put the D2Ds on the right frames and do the paper work for them.

More Wages staff to deal with all the complaints of not being paid for all the D2Ds they delivered that week

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh just seen a flying pig

[andy2007]

Big Daz,
I'm glad to be proved wrong about the Hard Sell. I really thought that, that would be the main point of the meetings. Particularly after a Blog in the Youth Section was removed, as it was biased against the deal.

When I was refering to what RM offered during the negotiations. I was referring to working conditions, rather than money. I know that money is an important factor to us all. But our working conditions are far more important. Although personally, I won't have to face anything really comparable to what the Delivery Posties will face. Things will be bad enough for me!

I know that we need to modernise. In fact, I welcome it. But the way we're going about it, is all wrong. Merging and closing Centres, before the automation is up and running. Unrealistic targets (yes, I know it's worse in Deliveries, but that doesn't justify it happening!), introducing new systems (WCM) which transfer blame away from Managers when things go wrong. Without giving OPGs the authority to get the neccessary resources to avoid failures. Etc., etc., etc..

And don't even get me started on H&S! We're already supposed to be in a centre which puts H&S first. But if you were to see the number of accidents and near misses, it'd scare you. It certainly scares me! So without specific penalties included in the agreement. I don't trust that section of it, as far as I could throw it! There's just too much ambiguity about the benefits, and too high a cost for it IMHO.

[Pat Ostman]

Unlimited D2D will mean vastly improved sales for the wood pulp industry. Vote yes for more profitable sawdust

Unlimited D2D will mean vastly improved sales for the makers of Magnum Shoes. Votes yes for weekly Magnum Shoes

[BELIAL]

"UK chiropractors unanimously endorse 2010 and Infinity deal"

[BELIAL]

Big Daz,
I know that money is an important factor to us all. But our working conditions are far more important.

I'll buy you a new kettle for your rest room if you agree to work for free

[lovejoy]

Was everyone in complete agreement that this is a good deal in bournemouth lovejoy

To say everyone was in agreement would be......... a lie.

To say that the majority went away thinking perhaps in a different frame of mind than when they arrived is true. The presentation from Bob Gibson went down very well and gave an excellent analysis of the D2D issue. This will be sent to all branches.

Every local rep in the UK will have a meeting with the CWU Officers over the next couple of weeks and every branch has been asked to call members meetings with PEC speakers etc.

Whatever the outcome these debates must be had and the best place for that is face to face.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the PEC sent out when the 2007 agreement was in doubt.

This isn't 2007 there is no trust. This deal is dead in the water and you'd better believe it.

Time will tell on that one

I see you share the arrogance of the leadership - even the 2007 deal was better than this - and yet it brought us to this situation. The union has lost sight of its raison d'etre and believes it should exist in its own right. Well when the money stops flowing, so will the milk, honey and gravy.

I am not being arrogant..... I am pointing out a fact! Time and the membership will tell if this agreement goes through!!

I suggest you claiming a no vote before the ballot papers have even gone out is arrogant...

[dvbuk55]

Yes Lovejoy time will tell - it's an arrogance to assume the membership will be taken in by charlatans professing to be ambivalent but supporting the deal.

This is a no win situation for the CWU if they do win the vote - and I seriously doubt it, they will lose an enormous number of members.

[BELIAL]

Let's face it Lovejoy, it's an absolute s**t deal just like the last one. More work for less pay.



2007 with knobs on ,we've gone over the going backwards edge and are heading down the slippery slope and the speed of our descent is increasing year to year. "To protect and improve the terms and conditions of the membership' there is no defense

[lovejoy]

Yes Lovejoy time will tell - it's an arrogance to assume the membership will be taken in by charlatans professing to be ambivalent but supporting the deal.

This is a no win situation for the CWU if they do win the vote - and I seriously doubt it, they will lose an enormous number of members.

So when did i 'assume' there would be a yes vote?

[Big Daz]

Yes Lovejoy time will tell - it's an arrogance to assume the membership will be taken in by charlatans professing to be ambivalent but supporting the deal.

This is a no win situation for the CWU if they do win the vote - and I seriously doubt it, they will lose an enormous number of members.

So when did i 'assume' there would be a yes vote?

You didn't!!!

[dvbuk55]

Well if I was a gambling man and I was backing a horse - you would assume I was backing it to win - and so are you, so lets not pussyfoot about you fully expect this deal to be accepted as you did the 2007 agreement and I have no doubt you privately advocate it - I sincerely hope you are wrong - this deal screams out to be aborted because it is an abomination for all delivery postmen and women who have lost so much already from the pension scam to the pay freeze.

Lets not be in any doubt here, anyone who represents delivery officers who advocates this deal doesn't deserve to be elected again.

[andy2007]

I am not being arrogant..... I am pointing out a fact! Time and the membership will tell if this agreement goes through!!

I suggest you claiming a no vote before the ballot papers have even gone out is arrogant...

Personally, I don't think either of you are being arrogant. You're both expressing your opinions, and are entitled to do so. There wouldn't be any point having RMC, if we all agreed about everything, would there?

There's nothing arrogant about believing that there will be a no vote. Considering the problems with the deal. And neither is there anything arrogant about believing that it'd be a yes. In 2007, Lovejoy was one of a very tiny group, who had the courage of their convictions, by arguing on here, for a yes vote. And sadly, he turned out to be right. I thought he was wrong to back that one, and think he's wrong to back this one. But that's just my opinion. If I was to suggest that anyone should vote no, just because I think they should, that would be stupid and undemocratic. But what I think those of us who oppose the agreement, SHOULD be doing. Is trying to convince others to vote no. By putting forward reasoned arguments.