UPDATE FROM HQ

[postie73]

I think you can safely say d2d's is just as much a bigger issue as later saturdays for us members!!!
now dingo & lovejoy im sure have members best interest at heart, but lets get real here................... if as part of this "new deal" we are to recieve a weekly paid allowance for d2d's it will be worth substanially alot less than what we're getting now
the only way royal fail are going to be able to increase it to maybe 6 items per week is by paying us potentially alot less in the future than what there doing now resulting in them being able to grow that side of the business......... winning contracts from its rivals!!!!!!!!
so £15/20 per week would be a result for them but an absolute disaster for us

[heapsy]

I think you can safely say d2d's is just as much a bigger issue as later saturdays for us members!!!
now dingo & lovejoy im sure have members best interest at heart, but lets get real here................... if as part of this "new deal" we are to recieve a weekly paid allowance for d2d's it will be worth substanially alot less than what we're getting now
the only way royal fail are going to be able to increase it to maybe 6 items per week is by paying us potentially alot less in the future than what there doing now resulting in them being able to grow that side of the business......... winning contracts from its rivals!!!!!!!!
so £15/20 per week would be a result for them but an absolute disaster for us

Spot on, the only way it might be improved is if that payment were made pensionable and consolidated in to pay.

[fishtank]

Well I'd hardly call it information

If you don't want to post, don't post.

I'm sure someone else would be delegated to sneak the "information" out.

If your looking for a name for it dvb it's called "Astroturfing".

Astroturfing is an English-language term referring to political, advertising, or public relations campaigns that are formally planned by an organization, but designed to mask its origins to create the impression of being spontaneous, popular "grassroots" behavior.


The term refers to AstroTurf, a brand of synthetic carpeting designed to look like natural grass.

The goal of such a campaign is to disguise the efforts of a political or commercial entity as an independent public reaction to some political entity—a politician, political group, product, service or event. Astroturfers attempt to orchestrate the actions of apparently diverse and geographically distributed individuals, by both overt ("outreach", "awareness", etc.) and covert (disinformation) means. Astroturfing may be undertaken by an individual pushing a personal agenda or highly organized professional groups with financial backing from large corporations, unions, non-profits, or activist organizations. Very often the efforts are conducted by political consultants who also specialize in opposition research. Beneficiaries are not "grass root" campaigners but distant organizations that orchestrate such campaigns.

[snoopywonderdog]

At least I will get to vote on this issue. Not like when Pegasus was introduced in our office by our cwu rep, where is he now a Manager.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Maybe the guess who people are game should stop. This is a reason why some people are wary of posting on here. What would you gain from exposing who a poster is??........ probably a loss of information for everyone else.

I would prefer that as well - RMC has always operated on individuals anonymity being as far as possible protected. We can't change that approach just because members are becoming frustrated at the lack of information coming from official sources, and the piecemeal but welcome snippets from unofficial or semi-official sources.

To be honest as I have said a few times on here, don't believe everything you read on here, and certainly balance it with your own research. All posters should be taken at face value, whatever their position with the CWU or Royal Mail, and when you read their post you should use your own judgement as to how good their information has been in the past, and how much they contribute to the site. I think TBH Dingo, Lovejoy and recently The Truth have all helped us understand better, what is going on in the talks. We might not like what has been posted or even agree with it, but we certainly are better off with the information we have got than if we had received nothing at all.

[floydy]

I think you can safely say d2d's is just as much a bigger issue as later saturdays for us members!!!
now dingo & lovejoy im sure have members best interest at heart, but lets get real here................... if as part of this "new deal" we are to recieve a weekly paid allowance for d2d's it will be worth substanially alot less than what we're getting now
the only way royal fail are going to be able to increase it to maybe 6 items per week is by paying us potentially alot less in the future than what there doing now resulting in them being able to grow that side of the business......... winning contracts from its rivals!!!!!!!!
so £15/20 per week would be a result for them but an absolute disaster for us

Spot on, the only way it might be improved is if that payment were made pensionable and consolidated in to pay.

Err the pensions fooked isnt it why would pouring more of your money into into such a large black hole help?

I stopped paying into my pension about 4 years ago when i seen it going tits up...so any benefits linked to pensions mean nothing to me.... sorry i know im probably minority on that score, but the way things are going we'll all be dead before retirement age anyway, so extra money in my pocket every week and my house is my pension.....Sieze the day

Carpe diem

[robd]

Don't want to hijack the thread with D2D's,but the union appears in an impossible position,on the one hand we're told
how unpopular they are with the mebership,yet no-one wants to lose any money for them.
Then the business tell the union,they shouldn't have to pay us as we are already going there anyway,then they suggest
that due to the logistics/cost of handling them(processing through WBC,transportation,payments)it would make more commercial sense to employ someone seperately to deliver them.
It's going to be like winning the speedboat on Bullseye,everyones a winner,but really no-one wants it.

[dvbuk55]

Well I'd hardly call it information

If you don't want to post, don't post.

I'm sure someone else would be delegated to sneak the "information" out.

If your looking for a name for it dvb it's called "Astroturfing".

Astroturfing is an English-language term referring to political, advertising, or public relations campaigns that are formally planned by an organization, but designed to mask its origins to create the impression of being spontaneous, popular "grassroots" behavior.


The term refers to AstroTurf, a brand of synthetic carpeting designed to look like natural grass.

The goal of such a campaign is to disguise the efforts of a political or commercial entity as an independent public reaction to some political entity—a politician, political group, product, service or event. Astroturfers attempt to orchestrate the actions of apparently diverse and geographically distributed individuals, by both overt ("outreach", "awareness", etc.) and covert (disinformation) means. Astroturfing may be undertaken by an individual pushing a personal agenda or highly organized professional groups with financial backing from large corporations, unions, non-profits, or activist organizations. Very often the efforts are conducted by political consultants who also specialize in opposition research. Beneficiaries are not "grass root" campaigners but distant organizations that orchestrate such campaigns.

Thanks for that ft, it's not an expression I was familiar with but it does describe the situation, in my opinion.

As I see it the nature of the posts invite conjecture and as soon as there is a negative reaction there is an immediate response in support of the position as it stands, citing any number of reasons as to why that is the only way it can be.

As for the exposure of the posters that too must be in question to justify the validity of the posts - as some wag suggested maybe someone knows the cleaner at HQ. One thing is for sure, the posts themselves purport to be from someone in the know - in which case why aren't HQ actually updating us - even if it is in the same guarded fashion.

[fishtank]

Maybe the guess who people are game should stop. This is a reason why some people are wary of posting on here. What would you gain from exposing who a poster is??........ probably a loss of information for everyone else.

I think TBH Dingo, Lovejoy and recently The Truth have all helped us understand better, what is going on in the talks. We might not like what has been posted or even agree with it, but we certainly are better off with the information we have got than if we had received nothing at all.

There are a couple of questions that bother me TBT.

Considering the negotiations are strictly confidential

Is the CWU aware of the information being "leaked" onto this website?
Is Royal Mail management aware of the information being "leaked" onto this website?
Given the public nature of RMC and the fact that both sides are well aware of it i think the answer to both these questions has to be yes.

The BIG question then is why have neither side attempted to stop these leaks?
In my opinion the only plausible answer to this question is that it suits the agenda of both parties.

[wranglered]

Maybe the guess who people are game should stop. This is a reason why some people are wary of posting on here. What would you gain from exposing who a poster is??........ probably a loss of information for everyone else.

I think TBH Dingo, Lovejoy and recently The Truth have all helped us understand better, what is going on in the talks. We might not like what has been posted or even agree with it, but we certainly are better off with the information we have got than if we had received nothing at all.

There are a couple of questions that bother me TBT.

Considering the negotiations are strictly confidential

Is the CWU aware of the information being "leaked" onto this website?
Is Royal Mail management aware of the information being "leaked" onto this website?
Given the public nature of RMC and the fact that both sides are well aware of it i think the answer to both these questions has to be yes.

The BIG question then is why have neither side attempted to stop these leaks?
In my opinion the only plausible answer to this question is that it suits the agenda of both parties.

spot on fishtank, as you are with the astroturfing.....love it!!!

[TrueBlueTerrier]

There are a couple of questions that bother me TBT.

Considering the negotiations are strictly confidential

Is the CWU aware of the information being "leaked" onto this website?
Is Royal Mail management aware of the information being "leaked" onto this website?
Given the public nature of RMC and the fact that both sides are well aware of it i think the answer to both these questions has to be yes.

The BIG question then is why have neither side attempted to stop these leaks?
In my opinion the only plausible answer to this question is that it suits the agenda of both parties.

My post at http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... le#p235415" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; may answer a few questions - possibly

[Big Daz]

Some of the small print did not exist, if phase wording on absorption had been in the 2007 agreement things may have worked out differently. Members voted to utilise all paid work hours, the detailed phase 3 stuff never went to a vote, it was imposed on us and has been a disaster which is in part due to a lack of a mandate and bad wording.

[Stormproof]

Who is who or what does not matter here evrything discused on this thread means nothing cause if HQ leak its to bolster their beliefs, if not it makes NO difference cause we can all spin a story FFS. Yes dingo is posting and believes what he says but after meeting Ward i aint suprised cause HQ have us banged to rights on the Psychology front they do it all the time at conference! Been to a few of those Union conferences as well and the f***ers would have most eating from their hands and sucking on their tits for some milk that will never come! This whole thing comes down to ONE thing is it good for you and yours? Take every thing else with a pinch of salt! READ ALL THE SMALL PRINT as many did not in 2007 and if you find it wanting VOTE NO and make the lazy f*ckers at HQ do what we pay em for and that is REPRESENTATION NOT DICTATION from them and RM! Many members FAILED IN 2007 and we all PAY NOW! Do you want your life worse or better? The f*cking choice is yours but please spair the bleating cause 2007 was voted in because many members eat sh*t if covered in enough sugar and HQ and RM covered it in it then and will do so again The choice is YOURS! but we do have another choice and that is NO.

Blimey Linkin, well written and definately spot on

[Big Daz]

I didnt declare my stance or may be i did? I really dont recall although ive got a feeling i did declare.

Feel free to look back through my posts.


However that does not stop any of us whether yes or no to the 2007 agreement from reviewing it 2 - 3 years on to ensure it is still fit for purpose and make sure RML are abiding and if not haul them up and challenge them.

This site however alows one to develop a broader judgement, rather than a judgement based on a individuals D.O alone.

Cant really find a lot of fault based on how the 2007 works at my D.O. We have longs and shorts, yet we dont actually need longer days as it simply makes the J and F problem look worse than it is. We do absorption when staff numbers are low but that is anything but a day in day out,week in week out basis. Other than that, nothing else has happened, no flexing , no working at nearby offices. Its all there in the local agreement of course but its just words on a few bits of paper filed away nearly 2 years ago. Absorption did not start untill 2009, due to DOM wanting it delayed untill after pegasus was in and settled. Thre has been the odd ocassion very few and fare between though were the DOM could have asked for the 30 min flex but has never ever done so. Summer absorption has never taken place.


Looking at this site it seems that looking at the collective rather than individual D.O's it has not been a success. It seems its down to the mind set of individual DOMS how the 2007 agreement has worked out around the country.

[pickaname]

We have to remember when considering a new agreement that it is in RMs interest to get one that sticks.

Its not a good strategy trying to implement an agreement that holds for a year then leads to strikes.

The agreement will be both good and bad. Its called compromise.