Not ALLOWED to book o/t

[SpacePhoenix]

How judgemental of you.
I also state. That you can only lapse if it is manageable and overtime should be optional.
Some staff expect if their duty finishes early then so can They. But other staff are out delivering until late. That's not fair or consistent.

If you finish your duty early and there is nothing else to do then do you expect those who've finished to sit in the office twiddling their thumbs until their finish time??

Once each DO ends up delivering their own LAT parcels (can't see it being viable to use hubs to deliver it once it gets popular enough), could the DOM then send them back out to deliver some of the LAT items?

[fed_up_postie]

How judgemental of you.
I also state. That you can only lapse if it is manageable and overtime should be optional.
Some staff expect if their duty finishes early then so can They. But other staff are out delivering until late. That's not fair or consistent.

If you finish your duty early and there is nothing else to do then do you expect those who've finished to sit in the office twiddling their thumbs until their finish time??

Once each DO ends up delivering their own LAT parcels (can't see it being viable to use hubs to deliver it once it gets popular enough), could the DOM then send them back out to deliver some of the LAT items?

In my opinion yes they can just as long as it won't take you over your time. In my office if there's phase left and you get back early you are sent back out to do it as long as it won't take you over your time.

[Celgar]

How judgemental of you.
I also state. That you can only lapse if it is manageable and overtime should be optional.
Some staff expect if their duty finishes early then so can They. But other staff are out delivering until late. That's not fair or consistent.

If you finish your duty early and there is nothing else to do then do you expect those who've finished to sit in the office twiddling their thumbs until their finish time??

Once each DO ends up delivering their own LAT parcels (can't see it being viable to use hubs to deliver it once it gets popular enough), could the DOM then send them back out to deliver some of the LAT items?

I suppose the DOM could do that but if a DO was going to take on LAT they would have to get 'volunteers' initially who were interested in doing it and couldn't rely on Postie's getting back early every day to deliver them. In our DO for example there are a few Postie's who do the collections but the remaining Postie's wouldn't be interested in doing more work. I think the hub model is probably the better method especially if they base it out of larger DO with more staff.

[Celgar]

Celgar, I've seen a couple of your posts where you say that your office is always going over but that the Dom won't allow you to claim docket. Wtf. Are you working for nothing, or being bullied or both of an i missing something here mate.

The delivery part of our walks are probably longer than in most other offices since the last redesign of our walks. This was to enable us to keep most of our duties as full time jobs which is not the norm within RM. I get the impression in a lot of other offices maybe over 50% of the duties are part time. We have, out of Postie's personal choice and to keep RM off our backs, three duties which could be seen as being part time. They are four day duties with IPS and prep included though so are not much less than full time.
As in every office we have, either through personal choice or ability, quicker and slower Postie's so some get back before duty time ends, some on time, and some after duty time ends. We have a couple of duties that are officially longer than the rest of the walks and this was a known fact when the walks were redesigned. A way to make the duties all the same length couldn't be devised. One of those two walks regularly gets a lot of parcels and is longer than the RM system said it was.
Regarding signing for extended delivery or cutting off it's never been easy to do and so you just get worn down and don't bother in the end. With our previous DOM the system was a bit different to now. We hadn't i varying amounts of 'absorption' - single or double equal to 20 or 40 minutes - on some or every day and the absorption had to be delivered first. If anything had to be 'cut off' it couldn't be the absorption and it had to be a different part of our walk each day. We are loyal to our customers more than to RM or anyone else and never wanted double mail in the frames the following days. Therefore we would not cut off and carry on in our own time to get everything delivered.
We have a different DOM now and for the most part the office runs well and everyone is largely happy in a local sense with most grumbling and disputes aimed at higher management who are beyond our control. It still isn't easy to book extended or cut off except if something major happens then the DOM gets everyone to book some. The booking sheets always used to be visible & available until a while back when a couple of posties started booking extended they hadn't done. Since then the sheets are kept safe somewhere in the office.
There is sort of an unofficial flexibility of time thing going on nowadays that the union seems to be in agreement with. There is no written calculation of time used or anything though so it's all sort of in the air. Personally I would like to see an agreement between the RM & the CWU that is written down in stone, known about by everyone, and applied consistently everywhere across the whole of RM. I realise firms across the country are up to this kind of activity but it isn't a good way to treat a workforce. I heard the other day that when supermarkets lose staff through people leaving etc they don't replace them and expect the remaining staff to just cover the slack. I'm not totally against some flexibility on our end but if it largely ends up in RMs favour, and I think it does, then RM should use AHDC/PDA data to pay employees for the additional time worked that hasn't been paid for.
So the short answer to your query would be I don't really consider I am bullied as our DOM isn't like that. You could maybe call it pressure I suppose. It just isn't easy or 'user friendly' to be able to book extended..

Not booking extended or cutting off is giving your dom the freedom to not pay extended!!!! He/she clearly knows you all will complete despite going over!!! Phase was originally agreed to be done at the BACK END of delivery and I certainly haven't seen or heard of any other agreement about it being done before! Unfortunately being loyal to your customers is the same as being loyal to RM because you are working for free!!! Can I ask are you gonna be happy during Xmas pressure to stay out to complete without being paid extended?? Possibly being 2 hours over your finish time and doing it for free??? All your doing is lining your doms pocket with a nice bonus as the office is completing every day and at no extra cost!! Sounds like your office needs to make a statement once and for all!! Pay extended (to those who are happy to do it) or cut off and go home at your finish time leaving your dom to deal with it seeing as that's why their are paid over 40k a year plus bonuses!!

Christmas is obviously different and we do get paid extended delivery in the lead up to Christmas. I get the impression every DO negotiates this individually probably with union reps getting input as well. This likely means that not all Postie's get a good or similar deal. Quite often the additional money we receive doesn't cover the additional hours it takes to get everything delivered. Customers tend to start shopping earlier year on year with the pre-christmas sales & online offers so arguably RM should be paying Xmas pressure in or from November.

[fed_up_postie]

Celgar, I've seen a couple of your posts where you say that your office is always going over but that the Dom won't allow you to claim docket. Wtf. Are you working for nothing, or being bullied or both of an i missing something here mate.

The delivery part of our walks are probably longer than in most other offices since the last redesign of our walks. This was to enable us to keep most of our duties as full time jobs which is not the norm within RM. I get the impression in a lot of other offices maybe over 50% of the duties are part time. We have, out of Postie's personal choice and to keep RM off our backs, three duties which could be seen as being part time. They are four day duties with IPS and prep included though so are not much less than full time.
As in every office we have, either through personal choice or ability, quicker and slower Postie's so some get back before duty time ends, some on time, and some after duty time ends. We have a couple of duties that are officially longer than the rest of the walks and this was a known fact when the walks were redesigned. A way to make the duties all the same length couldn't be devised. One of those two walks regularly gets a lot of parcels and is longer than the RM system said it was.
Regarding signing for extended delivery or cutting off it's never been easy to do and so you just get worn down and don't bother in the end. With our previous DOM the system was a bit different to now. We hadn't i varying amounts of 'absorption' - single or double equal to 20 or 40 minutes - on some or every day and the absorption had to be delivered first. If anything had to be 'cut off' it couldn't be the absorption and it had to be a different part of our walk each day. We are loyal to our customers more than to RM or anyone else and never wanted double mail in the frames the following days. Therefore we would not cut off and carry on in our own time to get everything delivered.
We have a different DOM now and for the most part the office runs well and everyone is largely happy in a local sense with most grumbling and disputes aimed at higher management who are beyond our control. It still isn't easy to book extended or cut off except if something major happens then the DOM gets everyone to book some. The booking sheets always used to be visible & available until a while back when a couple of posties started booking extended they hadn't done. Since then the sheets are kept safe somewhere in the office.
There is sort of an unofficial flexibility of time thing going on nowadays that the union seems to be in agreement with. There is no written calculation of time used or anything though so it's all sort of in the air. Personally I would like to see an agreement between the RM & the CWU that is written down in stone, known about by everyone, and applied consistently everywhere across the whole of RM. I realise firms across the country are up to this kind of activity but it isn't a good way to treat a workforce. I heard the other day that when supermarkets lose staff through people leaving etc they don't replace them and expect the remaining staff to just cover the slack. I'm not totally against some flexibility on our end but if it largely ends up in RMs favour, and I think it does, then RM should use AHDC/PDA data to pay employees for the additional time worked that hasn't been paid for.
So the short answer to your query would be I don't really consider I am bullied as our DOM isn't like that. You could maybe call it pressure I suppose. It just isn't easy or 'user friendly' to be able to book extended..

Not booking extended or cutting off is giving your dom the freedom to not pay extended!!!! He/she clearly knows you all will complete despite going over!!! Phase was originally agreed to be done at the BACK END of delivery and I certainly haven't seen or heard of any other agreement about it being done before! Unfortunately being loyal to your customers is the same as being loyal to RM because you are working for free!!! Can I ask are you gonna be happy during Xmas pressure to stay out to complete without being paid extended?? Possibly being 2 hours over your finish time and doing it for free??? All your doing is lining your doms pocket with a nice bonus as the office is completing every day and at no extra cost!! Sounds like your office needs to make a statement once and for all!! Pay extended (to those who are happy to do it) or cut off and go home at your finish time leaving your dom to deal with it seeing as that's why their are paid over 40k a year plus bonuses!!

Christmas is obviously different and we do get paid extended delivery in the lead up to Christmas. I get the impression every DO negotiates this individually probably with union reps getting input as well. This likely means that not all Postie's get a good or similar deal. Quite often the additional money we receive doesn't cover the additional hours it takes to get everything delivered. Customers tend to start shopping earlier year on year with the pre-christmas sales & online offers so arguably RM should be paying Xmas pressure in or from November.

Xmas is no different!!! Yea it will be a lot heavier but the subject of this post relates to not being allowed to book extended when going over so why should Xmas be any different?? Your dom is just taking the piss out of you all and you are all letting him/her!!! You have a contract to work from start time to finish time!!! IF YOU GO OVER YOUR FINISH TIME YOU BOOK REGARDLESS OF WHAT TIME OF YEAR IT IS END OF!!! IF THE DOM WON'T LET YOU THEN YOU FOLLOW THE CUTTING OFF PROCEDURE!!! Why are some people such pushovers that they allow managers to make them work for free!!!

[DGH]

If you finish your duty early and there is nothing else to do then do you expect those who've finished to sit in the office twiddling their thumbs until their finish time?

No, that'd be silly. However such people should really ask a manager if there is any other work for them to do. There almost certainly will be, be it prepping door to doors, setting up bull rings for packets, delivering lapsing that is convenient to the office and others with more onerous workload on that day were unable to take, updating your walklog or updating frame information to be inputted into the A+, etc etc.

No it happens that in most cases except where lapsing has not gone out, managers will tend to gape like vacant fish and say 'go home', in which case you may do so with a clear conscience. But otherwise, job and finish is over and sitting about twiddling one's thumbs is really managerial-grade work.

[number one]

Just go home, otherwise.....

[DGH]

If you leave work early without the permission of your employer (ie from a manager), you are in breach of your contract.

[number one]

If you leave work early without the permission of your employer (ie from a manager), you are in breach of your contract.

Anybody got a copy of the contract?

[fed_up_postie]

If you leave work early without the permission of your employer (ie from a manager), you are in breach of your contract.

So ALL managers are in breach of their contracts then as they all go home early and I for 1 can promise you now they don't get permission from their boss!!!

[fed_up_postie]

If you finish your duty early and there is nothing else to do then do you expect those who've finished to sit in the office twiddling their thumbs until their finish time?

No, that'd be silly. However such people should really ask a manager if there is any other work for them to do. There almost certainly will be, be it prepping door to doors, setting up bull rings for packets, delivering lapsing that is convenient to the office and others with more onerous workload on that day were unable to take, updating your walklog or updating frame information to be inputted into the A+, etc etc.

No it happens that in most cases except where lapsing has not gone out, managers will tend to gape like vacant fish and say 'go home', in which case you may do so with a clear conscience. But otherwise, job and finish is over and sitting about twiddling one's thumbs is really managerial-grade work.

Personally I don't think ANYONE should ask a manager if there's anything to do! If there is any work the manager should approach you when you return to the office. You are paid to do a job and if you complete that job in x amount of hours and finish early that is not your problem (unless of course you are 1 of those who starts early and runs around) but if you do the job properly and still complete early then why should you go looking for work when it is not your fault there's not enough work to accommodate your working hours. In our office all collections go in a red skin outside the managers door and all pda's are to be returned to the managers office so the managers will see you when you return, if they say "see you in the morning" then THAT is my permission to go home but 70% of the time said managers are gone home themselves

[number one]

My manager always leaves between 12:30 and 13:00. So what am supposed to do give him a call to see if he wants me to mop the floor, hoover his office? You also shouldn’t be prepping the following days Door 2 Doors as this is built in to the following days hours.

[DGH]

Personally I don't think ANYONE should ask a manager if there's anything to do! If there is any work the manager should approach you when you return to the office. You are paid to do a job and if you complete that job in x amount of hours and finish early that is not your problem

While I agree with the spirit of your post, it ain't that way.

You are paid to do a job, but that job is not set in stone. You are contracted for a certain number of hours per week which are scheduled across a set number of days at times fixed by the employer and it is your contractual duty to adhere to those times. Certainly it used to be the case that RM said once you had completed the work set you in the morning you could go home (job and finish). However we have, through negotiations, agreed that job and finish is over, so that implicit permission to go home early is gone. Managers have no permission to go home early either (unless granted by a higher power).

I agree where your office is small enough that your manager is not present when your duty ends, you cannot ask his permission to leave, but that does not absolve you from your contractual duty to attend, however much you may wish it did. Really RM should have some kind of procedure in place for that sort of eventuality, but obviously - being the utterly dysfunctional company that it is - it does not. But I reiterate, you have a duty to be available for work between set hours on set days. Having no instructions for further work does not allow you to simply go home - you need explicit permission for that.

I do understand that on a practical sense you can easily get away with leaving early. And I'm not saying you are immoral for so doing. I'm just pointing out that RM could be difficult about it if they ever limbered themselves up enough to.

[Navalron]

Celgar thanks for the reply. I understand what your saying but the walls have NEVER been equal or anywhere near it ever. That's the same in most jobs that the longer your in the door (seniority) then you get to pick the best jobs/duties. It's the same in first bus group, the trains ect. I could be working beside a driver and we both get paid for our 38hrs every week but he only drives say31.5 hrs and my driving content is 34 hrs. I'm working 2.5 hrs per week more but he was here before me and that's just the way it is. But no matter what I still hand in o,t tickets for 9 mins here and 14 mins there because it all adds up and more importantly, I don't work for nought. And I certainly wouldn't work for nothing just to keep the manager sweet and off your back. Thats why your in the union,is it not. At the end of the day it's up to the individual what they do and thank for letting us know your thoughts on it.

[Postie45]

However we have, through negotiations, agreed that job and finish is over, so that implicit permission to go home early is gone.

but managers have been complicit with knowingly allowing people to continue the job and finish practice, until the managers in a particular unit actually come out and say no one goes home early then its still allowed. It would be very simple for a union rep to put this case forward if a manager decided one day to conduct someone for it after allowing it to go on.