Alternative Industrial Action?

Norsegold · Post by **Norsegold** » 22 Aug 2017, 22:04

fishtank wrote:
Norsegold wrote:
Why would work to rule not work?
It's very dangerous.
Members end up dismissed for refusing to carry out work that isn't specifically protected by the instructions in the ballot, it's a legal minefield. Do you know what a work to rule means? I've been involved with the union for more than 20 years and I'm not sure.

I went through one some years ago - members stuck by their contracted hours, meal breaks etc and followed the health and safety rule book by the letter. It wasn't balloted - it was just no flexing!

Darwinsdad · Post by **Darwinsdad** » 22 Aug 2017, 22:49

fishtank wrote:
How about trying to convince every post person in every office to carry out their regular daily duties but only work their contracted hours,
Would this include those that finish early every day? Good luck with that. When does non completion become a performance issue? What do you do if RM accuse you of a deliberate go slow and suspend you? What would stop RM bringing in casual staff to clean up any hypothetical backlog. What happens if you come in at 6.30am and find management have prepped all of yesterday's "backlog" into your frame and they send you out at 7am for a 7hr delivery? These are just some of the potential flaws in anything short of a strike.

Guess I was being a bit náive then, you live and learn. Thanks for the response. I still stand by what I said about getting the reasoning out to the public though.

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 23 Aug 2017, 13:18

snapbee wrote:If anybody believes there is any form of legal industrial action, you are mistaken. Any form of industrial action including strike, balloted or not, is illegal.

You are confusing legal and contractual matters. When you strike you are breaking your contract, if it's a legal strike then neither you or the Union can be prosecuted.

Post by **midegarelu** » 24 Aug 2017, 18:42

sweepster70 wrote:https://www.gov.uk/industrial-action-st ... ial-action

Something interesting at the bottom about non Union members.

Industrial action by non-union members
Non-union members who take part in legal, official industrial action have the same rights as union members not to be dismissed as a result of taking action.

Martin Walsh · Post by **Martin Walsh** » 24 Aug 2017, 21:50

For all those who think there is an alternative to strike action than think again.

Royal Mail have a simply policy when a work force cause a back log due to people working to rule or having an overtime ban they will suspended or take someone off pay. Until that office or offices are either out unofficially or working normally.

Do you really think if working to rule worked we would have ever taken strike action in the past ?

No Royal Mail would rather stop your pay than allow you to continue on pay whilst causing a massive backlog !

Remember in 2009 postal workers decided to take part strike action so they did not take the Delivery out , this caused Royal Mail real problems , so what did Royal Mail do they wrote saying that they would stop the whole day's pay instead of an half day.This letter is on this site.

Strike action is the only weapon we have been successful with over the years and it is something we need to use once again to stop Royal Mail's attack on our terms and conditions , Pay , pensions and start and finish times.

Post by **labbloke** » 24 Aug 2017, 21:54

l
Absolutely right mate, were ready

Whysoslowyehcfc · Post by **Whysoslowyehcfc** » 25 Aug 2017, 14:38

People on here need to wake up, STOP PUSSYFOOTING AROUND, FULL ON STRIKE, NOTHING LESS, NONE OF THIS ONE SECTION OUT ON A THURSDAY, AND THE NEXT SHIFT OUT ON A FRIDAY, ALL OUT AT THE SAME TIME, AND IF IT MEANS A WEEK AT A TIME THEN SO BE IT!
People have had enough warnings, no one can afford it but if we don't fight now, we might as well pack up and go now, because if RM win then the job won't be worth doing

Post by **rambo1** » 27 Aug 2017, 20:10

Postie45 wrote:nice to think outside the box though, maybe others could come up with some ideas. I personally think the only one that would work that doesnt affect our own pay is work to rule, i understand that *some* wouldnt follow with this, but i think nowadays many people would... maybe the union should try this as phase 1 of IA, and if that isnt having affect then escalate to walk outs ?

A voice of reason. They rely on overtime that much, it would cause chaos. Work to time for a couple of weeks and see the mail and packets build up. Have a one day all out strike, and all money grabbers will just hoover the extra work going the next day.

Post by **Lounge Lizard** » 27 Aug 2017, 20:32

rambo1 wrote:
Postie45 wrote:nice to think outside the box though, maybe others could come up with some ideas. I personally think the only one that would work that doesnt affect our own pay is work to rule, i understand that *some* wouldnt follow with this, but i think nowadays many people would... maybe the union should try this as phase 1 of IA, and if that isnt having affect then escalate to walk outs ?
A voice of reason. They rely on overtime that much, it would cause chaos. Work to time for a couple of weeks and see the mail and packets build up. Have a one day all out strike, and all money grabbers will just hoover the extra work going the next day.

Advocating an overtime ban suggests that you're a full timer.

kingeric · Post by **kingeric** » 28 Aug 2017, 07:58

rambo1 wrote:
Postie45 wrote:nice to think outside the box though, maybe others could come up with some ideas. I personally think the only one that would work that doesnt affect our own pay is work to rule, i understand that *some* wouldnt follow with this, but i think nowadays many people would... maybe the union should try this as phase 1 of IA, and if that isnt having affect then escalate to walk outs ?
A voice of reason. They rely on overtime that much, it would cause chaos. Work to time for a couple of weeks and see the mail and packets build up. Have a one day all out strike, and all money grabbers will just hoover the extra work going the next day.

Have a look at the recent update video from Terry pullinger and you will see that one of the major issues is that part timers are not being given full time jobs. They are being asked to do overtime every day instead. So an overtime ban will only hurt part timers. So it's going to have the effect of splitting the workforce.

Part timers will think "why should I be the one losing out when full timers are still getting paid"
Full timers who see part timers doing overtime will be thinking part timers are messing it up for everyone. Suddenly the workforce is divided.

The simplest solution is everyone goes out.

korky · Post by **korky** » 28 Aug 2017, 09:16

kingeric wrote:
rambo1 wrote:
Postie45 wrote:the major issues is that part timers are not being given full time jobs. They are being asked to do overtime every day instead. So an overtime ban will only hurt part timers.

this is what's wrong with the company and union and both failed massively
apparently agreements in place are/were a ratio of ft to pt across the company, 75/25 i think, i wonder what it is today?
also pt should have their contracted hours reviewed if regularly working ft hours, i know a lot of pt who do ft hours but never get made up,nor full holiday pay.
you also could argue they took on a pt job so should be able to live off it with no need for overtime thus not losing out,
i used to work with a guy (not rm) who got that used to 10+ hours extra p/w he bought himself a flash car, 6 months later we lost a contract and no o/t at all, car repossessed and a bus pass bought

no matter which way IA goes, some lose out more than others, we will even get some moaning that the strike day doesn't fall on their rotated day off

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 28 Aug 2017, 09:27

How would an overtime ban put any pressure on Royal Mail? Say you leave a row of mail behind on Monday because you won't work past your time? Where will that row of mail be when you come in on Tuesday? Still in the frame. So now it's Tuesday and there's very little mail so you're probably going to have to take it all out. Wednesday you start again and leave a row in so on Thursday they make you take that row out and leave a different row and on friday you take out that different row and leave another, by the end of the week you've created a backlog of one row and it's Saturday and because management have given all the reserves Tuesday off ( business requirements ) there's spare bodies and posties who want to get home so you're ready to go early and guess what you're clearing your frame.

Overtime bans in processing and distribution are even more pointless, although by the letter of the law an employer can't break a strike using an alternative workforce there's nothing stopping them flooding a mailcentre with casuals because the staff won't work overtime, that will obviously cost royal mail money but on the other hand they've just slashed their overtime bill to zero so they've got the cash.

So even ignoring the fact that it's unfair on part-time staff and even ignoring the fact that it's going to be undermined by staff and even ignoring the fact that you can't monitor it ( people work overtime by starting early, finishing later, doing collections, working in the callers, working their day off, working at different offices, mailcentres etc ) it just won't have any practical effect.

mark.cup · Post by **mark.cup** » 28 Aug 2017, 09:36

There isn't an alternative that works!

The stronger the action the quicker an acceptable agreement will be reached..

Week 1 Friday,Saturday all out
Week 2 Monday,Tuesday all out
Work around that Royal Mail

The real blow all out week commencing 18th of December yes we lose money but we all get 10 days off for xmas with our families as back to work on Wednesday 27th

Odd days here and there are a waste of time from past experience

sweepster70 · Post by **sweepster70** » 28 Aug 2017, 10:02

No matter what's thrown at some they'll always tick the NO box. It's usually the ones who can't save/live beyond their means. Same goes for most of the people advocating a work to rule.
A lump sum over a pay rise isn't an option unless again. people can't save/living beyond their means. A pay rise will forever get larger the more your basic wage is.
If the Union negotiate anywhere near the WINRS proposal, we will all benefit massively.
If the Union negotiate a decent pay rise, it will benefit us greatly. The same goes with terms and conditions, ect.
The only way to achieve this is a very large YES vote. Anything close or even a no vote will have serious consequences for us an employee, a Trade Union and I believe, the Trade Union movement in the future,
This is a pivitoal time for us all.
As Terry Pullinger say's "It's time Pick sides, Pick the CWU or forever accept less"

clashcityrocker · Post by **clashcityrocker** » 28 Aug 2017, 10:53

korky wrote: apparently agreements in place are/were a ratio of ft to pt across the company, 75/25 i think, i wonder what it is today?
also pt should have their contracted hours reviewed if regularly working ft hours, i know a lot of pt who do ft hours but never get made up,nor full holiday pay.

There is no agreement that the f/t to p/t ratio should be 75/25. The last agreement simply spoke of predominantly full time being an overarching objective.
While there should be a review of p/t hours that is not necessarily a reason for them to get an increase in hours. Covering sick leave, maternity, vacancies would mean those hours won't necessarily exist in the future. Increased automation may also be a factor.
Holiday pay may have to change with recent judgements but this is something the union should have considered years ago when the model week and flexing up were introduced.
If all p/t overtime up to 39 hours was paid as SA they would have got their holiday pay increased.