Pension rip off action plan

[mark.cup]

Can someone explain why they're trying to screw us on the final salary bit when it's the goverment or should I say tax payer who will pay this or am I getting my wires crossed?

[cloherty1976]

I'm sure we'll hear a lot more about this Pension offer over the next few months. A few valid points already made. I agree that Royal Mail are initially just trying it on. A bit like selling your car you want £1500 ...you go high ask for £2000, the other guy goes low and offer £1000...... you hopefully end up somewhere around the middle.

The actual figures will obviously have to be hammered out by the CWU, I only hope they've got some people up to the task. It'd be nice if there was an independent negotiator who could assess what RM "could" afford, but I can't see any Company opening their books up to someone from outside.

Whilst agreeing that Royal Mail may well be pleading poverty (a cut of 7% on their contributions seems excessive) I also agree that we all have to take some responsibility for planing for our own retirement. Do you trust Royal Mail for ANYTHING? So why trust them to look after you once you've left the business? I'd suggest perhaps sorting yourself out another Personal Pension(if you're young enough) and put a bit of your take home pay in. You'll still benefit from the usual Tax rebates!

Sensible and great points but I suppose we will just go through this again in a few years and so on. Sad but that's what I see happening. Hope i am wrong.

[Chewster]

I'm sure we'll hear a lot more about this Pension offer over the next few months. A few valid points already made. I agree that Royal Mail are initially just trying it on. A bit like selling your car you want £1500 ...you go high ask for £2000, the other guy goes low and offer £1000...... you hopefully end up somewhere around the middle.

The actual figures will obviously have to be hammered out by the CWU, I only hope they've got some people up to the task. It'd be nice if there was an independent negotiator who could assess what RM "could" afford, but I can't see any Company opening their books up to someone from outside.

Whilst agreeing that Royal Mail may well be pleading poverty (a cut of 7% on their contributions seems excessive) I also agree that we all have to take some responsibility for planing for our own retirement. Do you trust Royal Mail for ANYTHING? So why trust them to look after you once you've left the business? I'd suggest perhaps sorting yourself out another Personal Pension(if you're young enough) and put a bit of your take home pay in. You'll still benefit from the usual Tax rebates!

Sensible and great points but I suppose we will just go through this again in a few years and so on. Sad but that's what I see happening. Hope i am wrong.

You're probably right mate, I think ALL workers, outwith royal mail too, are gonna have lots of pension fights on their hands with ever increasing retirement age and ever decreasing state pension. Which is why I wholeheartedly agree with dorsetplodder in that we should be trying to make our own arrangements too (if possible). Personally I won't be surprised if there's no such thing as a state pension by the time a lot of us retire!

[scoobydo79]

Lets be honest take this lying down and You will probably have it again and again and again over the next few years.Keep in mind that we are talking about Your standard of living if Your lucky enough to live to enjoy it!!!!

[Chitchat]

Lets be honest take this lying down and You will probably have it again and again and again over the next few years.Keep in mind that we are talking about Your standard of living if Your lucky enough to live to enjoy it!!!!

Well said, this is our retirement and the quality of life we will have. Its worth fighting for!

[JKSmudge]

I will probably get shot down in flames regarding this, but here goes.....

As a relative 'newbie' ( 2 years in the job ), I have not had access to the final salary pension scheme so having to pay into the inferior Defined Contributions scheme. So my questions are;-

1. Was there an almighty kerfuffle from the rank and file members ( or indeed the top union bods ) when RM announced that future employees would not have access to the more lucrative RM scheme ?

2. Assuming the answer to the above is 'little/none' - In the event of any ballot, are many of you expecting widespread support from us 'newcomers' to vote on action being taken ?

(BTW - I sympathise with the concerns of everyone affected by this and would be unlikely to cross a picket line in the event of strike action ).

[citypostie]

I will probably get shot down in flames regarding this, but here goes.....

As a relative 'newbie' ( 2 years in the job ), I have not had access to the final salary pension scheme so having to pay into the inferior Defined Contributions scheme. So my questions are;-

1. Was there an almighty kerfuffle from the rank and file members ( or indeed the top union bods ) when RM announced that future employees would not have access to the more lucrative RM scheme ?

2. Assuming the answer to the above is 'little/none' - In the event of any ballot, are many of you expecting widespread support from us 'newcomers' to vote on action being taken ?

(BTW - I sympathise with the concerns of everyone affected by this and would be unlikely to cross a picket line in the event of strike action ).

I suppose If royal mail decided to make thousands compulsory redundant and said last in first out because it's the cheapest way rather than paying all the long service men vr, you'd hope that those old timers would support the newcomers in fighting it possibly by striking even though they wouldn't be effected?

[LaggyBand]

A resource based economy. Materialise the Zeitgeist revolution. If we don't, this silly pension issue is nothing in comparison.

On topic, a mass "work properly" movement would be lovely.

[kingeric]

I will probably get shot down in flames regarding this, but here goes.....

As a relative 'newbie' ( 2 years in the job ), I have not had access to the final salary pension scheme so having to pay into the inferior Defined Contributions scheme. So my questions are;-

1. Was there an almighty kerfuffle from the rank and file members ( or indeed the top union bods ) when RM announced that future employees would not have access to the more lucrative RM scheme ?

2. Assuming the answer to the above is 'little/none' - In the event of any ballot, are many of you expecting widespread support from us 'newcomers' to vote on action being taken ?

(BTW - I sympathise with the concerns of everyone affected by this and would be unlikely to cross a picket line in the event of strike action ).

I suppose If royal mail decided to make thousands compulsory redundant and said last in first out because it's the cheapest way rather than paying all the long service men vr, you'd hope that those old timers would support the newcomers in fighting it possibly by striking even though they wouldn't be effected?

I posted something similar earlier in the thread. I've got over 17 years in so I'm far from a newbie. But I see how newbies are treated by old timers.

Now these guys will fully expect newbies to go out on strike. I personally wouldn't blame any of these new guys if they didn't go on strike. The chances are IF we went on strike we'd then get a pay out of £1k rather than 750. These new lads will get nothing.

This is a two tier work force except when some people don't want it to be. It's time we all started treating each other with respect. I'm sure we can all think of examples where a newbie has been treated like s**t in our offices.

There's one guy in my office, as an example, who has around 30 years service and for years he won't give the time of day to a newbie until they've done around 3 years. Even then he looks down his nose and has a dig at them for coming in early (paid) or doing over time, when they're just trying to earn the same wage as him. Yet he'll come in early (unpaid) every day and is finished by 1pm every day and kicks off if he isn't.

Just an example of how these new guys we expect to stand up for us can be treated. It's not an isolated incident too. Reading these pages and it happens across the country.

[Chelseablue]

Theres disrespectful knobeds in every office men and woman . The bosses love the arguements ,, my jobs bigger than youres , he/she is doing this, does my head in . There is a life outside royal mail , not a crazy fantastic one but there is lol

[Martin Walsh]

This is no game as some have suggested that Royal Mail have come in at 10% and will go higher. The reality is that they have gone to the stock exchange and said they will be a pension consultation which is a legal requirement if they wish to close a pension scheme. Any new movement by them will have consequences to the share price and the shareholders.

In any case the CWU are not going to accept without a fight what is on offer as a DC scheme will mean depending your age and your service to your 65 a significant reduction in your expected pension. Plus the majority of the current workforce are in the section c scheme and therefore joined from 1987 and Royal Mail seemed to have within the consultation that the commitment to honour all back service before 2008 by the final salary is going to be changed to RPI with a cap of 5% which is the current formula for the CARE scheme.

The CWU in 2008 got that commitment through using the industrial action ballot that all service up too 2008 would be protected by final salary. This added 1.6 billion to the pension pot. That would not have been given if the CWU had not taken action.

The CWU are not interested in a DC scheme. The policy of the CWU is that we want a united scheme without everyone in a new DB scheme with a minuimn Royal Mail contribution of 17.1%. Watch this space over the next few days ! Some of you argued that the union never has a plan b well well hopefully your be pleasantly surprised.

[LouBarlow]

The sad fact is if the money ain't there, it ain't there. Is everyone in the country going on strike because the govt are putting up the age of retirement? Most companies are struggling with their pensions. How many of us took out endowment policies 20 yrs ago with promises of £X to come when it matures, only to get much much less when it does? When will people get it that RM can't just go cap in hand to the govt any more, we are a business who must stand on its own. Of course, we must try and get the best possible deal out of it (£750, doesn't really cut it) however facts are facts, pensions across the board are fxxcked. Like it or not, that's life. Striking is only going to damage business and our future jobs, I favour working to rule. Don't know how this can be construed as industrial action if it's not orchestrated. Many of us work to rule every day anyway. It's about time they realised just how long it takes to do the job now and working to time is the only way they will see the true picture. Yeah, it's gutting if you're gonna get £2k less a yr than you thought in retirement, but if you add up your contributions over the yrs you'll also get a picture of how much the company has contributed to it over those yrs, you're still better of in the pension. Doesn't stop it pxxsing you off though.

Did you miss the part where the pension fund has a £1.8 billion surplus?

[yellowbelly]

The CWU are not interested in a DC scheme........

Well they flippin' well should be 'cos that's what I've got!!

.....The policy of the CWU is that we want a united scheme without everyone in a new DB scheme with a minuimn Royal Mail contribution of 17.1%. Watch this space over the next few days ! Some of you argued that the union never has a plan b well well hopefully your be pleasantly surprised.

Is your suggestion above plan A or plan B? Can't see the suggestion you've made (DB) happening in a million years - that's what they want
to close down. DC with that level of contribution? - big maybe.......

[rogersh]

The sad fact is if the money ain't there, it ain't there. Is everyone in the country going on strike because the govt are putting up the age of retirement? Most companies are struggling with their pensions. How many of us took out endowment policies 20 yrs ago with promises of £X to come when it matures, only to get much much less when it does? When will people get it that RM can't just go cap in hand to the govt any more, we are a business who must stand on its own. Of course, we must try and get the best possible deal out of it (£750, doesn't really cut it) however facts are facts, pensions across the board are fxxcked. Like it or not, that's life. Striking is only going to damage business and our future jobs, I favour working to rule. Don't know how this can be construed as industrial action if it's not orchestrated. Many of us work to rule every day anyway. It's about time they realised just how long it takes to do the job now and working to time is the only way they will see the true picture. Yeah, it's gutting if you're gonna get £2k less a yr than you thought in retirement, but if you add up your contributions over the yrs you'll also get a picture of how much the company has contributed to it over those yrs, you're still better of in the pension. Doesn't stop it pxxsing you off though.

"govt are putting up the age of retirement?"

Maybe pedantic but it is the age when you can draw your state pension that is going up. Retirement age is no longer applicable. (I think certain jobs for safety or health reasons you could be deemed unfit & made to retire)

[Dorset Plodder]

This is no game as some have suggested that Royal Mail have come in at 10% and will go higher. The reality is that they have gone to the stock exchange and said they will be a pension consultation which is a legal requirement if they wish to close a pension scheme.

The CWU are not interested in a DC scheme. The policy of the CWU is that we want a united scheme without everyone in a new DB scheme with a minuimn Royal Mail contribution of 17.1%. Watch this space over the next few days ! Some of you argued that the union never has a plan b well well hopefully your be pleasantly surprised.

Thanks for clarifying that Dingo, much of this is above my paygrade! I support the CWU and if the majority of members vote for industrial action I'll take it. I do despair at the short shortsightedness of many of my colleagues, I'm sure many will be swayed by the offer of a £750 bung..... (as it will pay for a holiday), despite the long term effects on their pension.