Hayes and Ward xmas holiday break

[welshy808]

the figures resigning from the CWU is the same percentage it has been for the last 20 years.

Even though the large numbers who said they were going to leave may not have done so, you cannot genuinely believe that the membership is happy with the way things are.

I have still yet to meet anyone who claims to have voted for the last deal.
How do you suggest we sell union membership to new starters?

Rep "why not join the union?"
Starter "Why what benefits will I get?"
Rep "loads ask your workmates."
Starter to Colleague "Should I join the Union?"
Colleague "NO, They just cut my wages by £20 a week and I have to do more for less money, up to 6 D2D at Christmas, What a Great Deal, Thanks Billy, Thanks Dave, Thanks Bob"

[fishtank]

You're right welshy...the perception of the union is at an all-time low.
That perception might not be completely true but it doesn't matter a damm because the damage is the same either way....and as for the reasons members leave,it doesn't matter in the slightest...lost subs and members is...lost subs and members.

[DirtyHarry]

I wouldn't be too surprised to learn that Tweedledum and Tweedledee finish on Fri.17th Dec for a whole fortnight, nope, not in the least bit surprised.

For the record they are working next week , and have been at Sunday AGMs and evening Branch meetings all over the UK. Now I accept some of you dont like them but surely you can speak civil and keep to the issue rather than make cheap shots , in my view it is cowards way to hide behind a computer and slag indivuduals off.

You might not like them but both Dave and Billy do put the hours in and anyone in the know will state that.

To be perfectly frank, dingo......I really couldn't give a flying feck what you think, mate.
If the only price that those two fat feckin' waste of spaces receive, is a good slagging off by "cowards hiding behind a computer", as you keep aiming at me in the most tiresome fashion, then they, unlike us, can count themselves very fortunate indeed.
And just for your information, this "coward" would let both Hayes & Ward have it with both barrels the minute I come face to face with them, in fact, for all you know, and it 'aint much, I already have and in no uncertain terms either.

The appalling record of the CWU in coming out of disputes with Royal Mail speaks for itself, time and time again those that can least afford to, have backed every day of strike action called, and time and time again, those poor sods have gone back into jobs with indisputably worse terms & conditions of employment, and if that's not bad enough, they go back in with a union increasingly with an attitude akin to management's, and that is, "there you are, it's not what any of you wanted, but you'll have to lump it, tough titty, postie."
It 'aint good enough, dingo......And quite honestly, if you full-time release, Mon-Fri bods, don't like postal workers feelings of anger and disillusionment, tough.

[Night Tonic]

Oh, so its not simply the fact that the money isn't there to facilitate the great deals you have in mind? Nothing like having your fingers in your ears. Fact is, most did vote for the deal and on that basis you have to live with it or go. Simple as. Anything said now is irrelevant.

[Martin Walsh]

Dirty harry lets examine your claims that members have come of worse over the last few disputes.

2003 London weighting dispute which led to a mass unofficial dispute. The resolution was that for the introduction of the single daily delivery you got £26,28 biggest pay rise ever in Royal Mail and you got the right to work 5 days or less. The end of the 6 day week. Mail centres got the £26,28 for making savings below a base line figure for 3 months in a row and most got the money and then put in the hours after. In addition MTSF 2 was agreed given more protection to pay protection and members in London got the biggest pay increase in London weighting.

Would people have perfered to have two deliveries off course they would have but 90% of the mail was being performed on the first delivery meaning that for every 7 second first deliveries you would have just one second delivery in some offices.
It was leading to more and more part timers so the union got the right deal for the change.

PAY and MOD national dispute , the deal which came about from Royal Mail"s desire to introduce 27 changes to terms and conditions trying to create a martini workforce whereby postal workers could work in any place at any time in any way.

The union achieved significant pay rises with the money being paid up front , could Royal Mail stop absorbtion no and whether there was a deal or not then absorbtion would still have been in place as Royal Mail no longer accepted job and finish.

The deal was accepted by the members.


Now last years dispute we have been over this time and time again , Royal Mail had a bussiness plan which included automation ,door to door into workload lifting the cap ,later saturdays as a result of the work being sequenced , tell me what you were willing to accept ?

The union is not faultless but no onther industry is going through falling revenue through DSA , pension defcit , de regulation and automation and transformation all at the same time.

[welshy808]

Now last years dispute we have been over this time and time again , Royal Mail had a bussiness plan which included automation ,door to door into workload lifting the cap ,later saturdays as a result of the work being sequenced , tell me what you were willing to accept ?

Dingo,
I'll tell you what I wouldn't have accepted, A PAY CUT for all of the above.

That comes from fed up Welsh delivery postman, that does actually deliver D2d and does not receive any London weighting
it seems a piss poor deal to us

[dvbuk55]

Didn't there used to be a progrmme called "All our Yesterdays".............Dingo conveniently forgets that most of the money for the 26 quid was from allowances we were already in receipt of..............the CWU are absolutely brilliant at trumpeting their triumphs in pay deals when in fact the money was already ours in the first place.

I'm also tired of hearing how Royal Mail had "a plan" what I would have liked to hear was what plan had the union........other than to follow.

[fishtank]

Oh, so its not simply the fact that the money isn't there to facilitate the great deals you have in mind? Nothing like having your fingers in your ears. Fact is, most did vote for the deal and on that basis you have to live with it or go. Simple as. Anything said now is irrelevant.

Is that you locking the thread NT?
The fact is,and i know this is hard for you to understand...it isn't always about money.
In fact most of the financial aspects of BT2010 were self-financing..just a shuffle about of monies already due.
The real problems come with the change of workload and the expectations and management "encouragement" techniques used to implement this change.
This is where the agreement is at it's weakest because although it talks of "involvement" on almost every page there is no practical enforcement of this involvement nor is there any fall back position if management close the door.
It is as was pointed out at the time built entirely on "trust".

From the comfort of your deckchair you have absolutely no experience of these changes or of the difficulties reps and members have in dealing with this agreement...maybe it would be best to remember that before you start typing your usual non posts.

[Martin Walsh]

Didn't there used to be a progrmme called "All our Yesterdays".............Dingo conveniently forgets that most of the money for the 26 quid was from allowances we were already in receipt of..............the CWU are absolutely brilliant at trumpeting their triumphs in pay deals when in fact the money was already ours in the first place.

I'm also tired of hearing how Royal Mail had "a plan" what I would have liked to hear was what plan had the union........other than to follow.

Wrong only those offices who had ICS and PBS bonus schemes paid 6.50 to the 26 pound , the rest was all new money.

[dvbuk55]

Didn't there used to be a progrmme called "All our Yesterdays".............Dingo conveniently forgets that most of the money for the 26 quid was from allowances we were already in receipt of..............the CWU are absolutely brilliant at trumpeting their triumphs in pay deals when in fact the money was already ours in the first place.

I'm also tired of hearing how Royal Mail had "a plan" what I would have liked to hear was what plan had the union........other than to follow.

Wrong only those offices who had ICS and PBS bonus schemes paid 6.50 to the 26 pound , the rest was all new money.

Perhaps I'm misguided but what about the Saturday allowance, the enhanced pay for overtime and in this latest deal where the majority of the pay comes from existing and due monies, not to mention the loss of D2D monies. Lets not be fooled into thinking this is NEW money.............they are self financing deals in one form or another.

[DirtyHarry]

Oh, so its not simply the fact that the money isn't there to facilitate the great deals you have in mind? Nothing like having your fingers in your ears. Fact is, most did vote for the deal and on that basis you have to live with it or go. Simple as. Anything said now is irrelevant.

You do not know what I have in mind.

[bexhil palace]

Dingo, Fishtank is spot on.
Of course every postal worker needs more money( who dosen't?).But the fact is walks are becoming ever more difficult to complete.
I know for a fact, that the more senior posties ( in age and experience) are struggling badly, and are being pressurised into cutting corners to acheve what is increasingly becoming the unachevable.
I myself have been hauled over the coals, because i regularily cut off. I was told in no uncertain terms ,that i was not good enough to do the job. This is after 23 years unblemished service.
Like the majority of posties, i still love what i do, and i do my job to the best of my ability. Happily i will not compromise the service i deliver to my customers by cutting corners, so sadly i can see a few B&H forms winging their way to area in the near future.
I am not one to jump on the CWU bashing bandwagon, but can you honestly say that postal workers have got a good deal out of the 2010& beyond agreement? i am not talking financially, but from the ability to provide a first rate service.
It is all well and good the top table stating that they have protected full time jobs,but the jobs are becoming more and more untenable.
Think about it, would you fancy trudging around in knee high snow drifts for 5 hours? Thought not.

[DirtyHarry]

The deal was accepted by the members.


Now last years dispute we have been over this time and time again , Royal Mail had a bussiness plan which included automation ,door to door into workload lifting the cap ,later saturdays as a result of the work being sequenced , tell me what you were willing to accept ?

"The deal was accepted by the members." Well, not by me it wasn't.

"tell me what you were willing to accept?" Well, nothing that made being a postman/woman more laborious and less rewarding, in other words, I would have accepted something that would have been the exact opposite of "2010 & Beyond."

Now let's hear the, "oh, but DirtyHarry, the shyte deal was the only one they were going to let us have, it was either that or nothing."
Without question, I would have carried on striking.

[Martin Walsh]

Dvbuk that was the way forward in 2000 which including pay restructring including the unigrade , saturday premium etc.

[Big Daz]

wonder why membership is down? it cant be because of the shite deal they got in for delivery offices can it?

Less staff leads to less mbrs and those who do retain membership dont pay the top membership fee thus a reduction in finances.