SENIORITY

[I-POSTIE]

Thank you, to those who posted encouraging remarks in response to my first substantive posting to this Website. Certainly the wealth of debate here leaves my unit in the main wanting when it comes to issues that are presently besieging all of us. I read with interest the comments that followed my contribution. Some I agreed with, others I did not but ultimately I think my overall conclusion was that the majority arrived at the notion that seniority is not perfect but is preferable to having management imposing their will where before we had choice albeit in order of seniority.

As I wrote before, I do not believe management wants to discontinue seniority in a bid to replace it with a superior impartial form of preference determination mechanism. I consider that management has recognised that Team Working is undermined by the current accepted system of seniority that incorporates all OPG’s that work within a unit and dedicated area. It is part of management’s scheme that in future the teams will absorb one of their member’s delivery should they be on leave hence members will have to take their leave in sequence so that no more than one member will be on leave at any one time. Should the current seniority procedure remain intact and two or more members receive overlapping leave dates there will not be sufficient members within that team remaining for the absorption of the vacant deliveries therefore invalidating Team Working.

An aspect of Team Working is that it is devised as offices within offices, separate teams working interconnected deliveries in a sector of a postcode area so that absorption of any one delivery within the group can be but an extension of the remaining deliveries. However these teams are supposed to work independently of each other under the same roof with their own internal selection processes for the determination of leave, etceteras. This engenders a condition, which prevent a member of one team, exchanging holiday dates with member of another team. In the present time we can approach any of the persons on the leave form with dates which one requires with a view to an exchange, under the Team Working conditions we will only have the opportunity to approach the person within the team we are in, whom has the dates that are desired, with the suggestion. Effectively, this diminishes our opportunity to broach unpredictable circumstances in a climate where management has become extremely inflexible and restrictive with special leave. It is my belief that if we campaign to retain the current seniority modus operandi within our work places Team Working will be null and void. Suits me.

[Big Daz]

Dose anyone still have seniority for picking leave? I thought the way forward scrapped it.

In my office its used for duty picking only

[johnnyp]

Leave is still allocated as far as im aware by seniority but you have the tie-break system.Persons who do not get there first pick are given first pick on the next years leave.Ask your dom or unit rep its something that came from the way forward agreement.

[POSTMAN]

FOzz you do try,respect your views as you know but sometimes you get it so wrong.
I-POSTIE Another gooden,who are you?
Johnny we've always got the 1st choice in our office i think,but didn't know about the 2nd year thing,will have to keep an eye on that,cheers.

[L Tommo]

Suits me to I POSTIE.. THUMBS UP!!

OUT

WE FOUGHT AND WON AGAINST "TEAM WORKING" BEFORE, DONT LET IT BACK INTHE BACK DOOR!!

[F0zziebear]

I've read I-Posties latest reply and like much of what he says.

On the surface the team working idea makes huge sense, however I also agree that not being able to swap leave with people outside of that group inhibits flexibility. This is why I prefer some local rules for local offices to provide a system that works for them. I have usually found that national agreements, whatever they are will always need local adaptation. I think the local DOM should be given more flexibility on how an office works. If they don't perform then they get booted out.

This approach could possibly undermine national union power, which is why I think it would never come in, though you may argue (as demonstrated on here) that there are local variations anyway. The set-up is so huge (1500 DO's / SPDO's) across the country.

F0zz

[KawasakiKid]

Our DO has got a local system, no one knows what it is but as nobody moans it works. It's about the only thing that our last DOM got right. (Good riddance) VOTE GREEN--------------------KWACK

[johnnyp]

No one knows how it works ? strange can you find out a bit more kawasakikid, just curious mate.

[KawasakiKid]

No one knows how it works ? strange can you find out a bit more kawasakikid, just curious mate.

It's complicated, I'll have a think and see if I can come up witha simple post. -------------------------KWACK

[ROCKY]

union rep has just hammered some 12 inch nails into the coffin of seniority,we are repicking at the moment many senior men leaving on evr,illness,or mutual termination of conract,first we had the people who have retained rites moving up the list because they are higher paid and rm wants them to pick 600 duties etc to save money now we have ringfenced duties for some other junior people for what has to be said are some piss poor excuses,when asked our rep said he had agreed these with the manager and it was nothing to do with us even though ringfencing was not actually mentioned to the rest off us,he has just about killed all faith in the union not to mention when the dom wants to pick people for a job and the rep says you cant it goes on seniority he will just turn round and say why not you do
well done our rep a better job of shafting all your members than rm has ever managed to do

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Rocky if he gets in next election I'm seriously thinking of leaving the union. He cant even deliver the mail properly as he is my cover day man.

Any union men on here that can tell me can we do a vote of no confidence - why this is 2nd time he has either refused or accepted something from the DOM without canvasiing members.

[POSTMAN]

Blimey guys,someone needs a kickin.
You guys TELL the rep what you want and he negotiates on your behalf,he can advise you but can't tell you.
I'm presuming a vote of no confidence would have to go to area.
You'd best be quick by the sound of it.
You could also call a meeting(with doms permission) if you've got enough backing from others,as most guys moan and don't wanna do anything about it.
And challenge him and do a vote thing there and then,f**k him off then tell the dom he's not representing you no more.
It could turn nasty,it's drastic,but it's your jobs and lives he's messing with.

[Carnoustie]

Dose anyone still have seniority for picking leave? I thought the way forward scrapped it.

In my office its used for duty picking only

We had scare-stories from management last August about seniority no longer being used for the 2007/2008 leave year (we have to fill-in our preferences more than 6 months ahead).
Cue arguments, heated discussions at WTLL sessions, people asking 'what system do you intend to put in place, then', met by management response of ' err.. err.. '

Every other potential method of allocation anyone suggested was open to favouritism, people lying about their domestic circumstances to gain leave they wouldn't otherwise have got, blatant discrimination against single / widowed / childless / gay people in favour of those with kids, and all sorts of other valid arguments.

What was the upshot of all this, apart from admin staff getting grief from all quarters from staff who thought the system they'd heard was coming in would mean they'd get 4 weeks in October or some other time when no-one else wanted holiday ???

Our Head of Ops got together with the CWU Area Rep, and common sense prevailed I think it was recognised that every system has it's pros and cons, but seniority is the least unfair method of allocation, because if there's any attempt to give a 'blue-eyed-boy' special treatment, e.g. getting leave at Christmas or in school summer holidays that their more senior colleagues somehow missed-out on, everybody would know immediately there's been a stitch-up and all hell would break loose. Seniority was the only logical way to do things, and it was retained as the 'weapon of choice' for annual leave allocation.

Anyone got any ideas as to what I should do with 4 weeks next February ?