Later Saturdays is about getting staff to leave

[drb]

I had an intense meeting with the DSM last week.The geo route would be used by the reps,obviously the training will be there for them too. Also "if hours need to be put back in then so be it".
His words..not mine.

If this thing goes through,then every one in the office needs to be involved. They know all the paths,flats,terrain etc.Your A plus needs to be bang up to date.

I have overheard a planner use Geo Route based on hours agreed with the rep.That is how it was planned.That is why the walks are s**t now. In fact that is how the reps used to work with the DOM in the old days with a map and pencil.Once the hours were agree,then everything from there. Not this time.

[Big Daz]

There is a proviso though isn't there about it being SELF FINANCING - which is strange really because according to the letter between Dave and Dale the revisions will not be motivated by budget - so how do you reconcile one with the other? If there is an increase in budget in order to apply the matrix that best suits the members does that rule it out?

Easy

Collapse my duty share it between my fellow PT within my floater group we all do 4 day week and I become the new extra floater. 30 hours X 6 OPG's before and after.

If a D.O has enough hours/workers and lets assume it does then its simply a matter or reorganasing those hours/workers.

If more hours are needed then they need to be put in and organised according to the options the workforce want.

The much awaited new workload and palnning tools/values will determine if more hours/workers are needed.

[DirtyHarry]

Hold on there guys, what would you really prefer, every sat late or the chance to have at best 1 in 3 sat off!!!!
Get your rep involved and look on this site for the template and you can see that you can still work 5 days or 4 and some of the spans are not as big as you think.
Some even have you off 1 in 4 weeks from fri-wed.... ffs what more do some guys want....get the rep working and see how many patterns you can put into office, remember not everyone has to have the same patterns, there could easily be a wide mix.

I would rather have had a strong union not backing down when Royal Mail said no, your members are going to have to put up with what we wouldn't put up with ourselves in a million years, Saturday being brought down to the level of a normal working weekday.
At least that way, if the CWU had stood it's ground, the workers that the CWU are supposed to represent would have had half decent Saturdays every week!!!
Walk sequencing is a load of old crap, it slows down the workers, it makes the deliveries our customers wait for, later than they ought be.
Modernisation? I wouldn't give an ounce of dog crap for it.

[General Mannerheim]

Yeah I can see it now... DOM ...there `s a shortfall of 50 hours we need to put more hours into the office.
Area Manager....f**k that,fire another 12 people,we can use the 10% performance bolloxs and then you will get a nice bonus.
Dom ....Good idea but I was thinking more along the line of 15.
Area Manager.....get the gobshite of a rep to do georoute...let him cock it up and give himself and his cronies a good round whilst shafting the workforce.
Dom...I love you snookums.
Area Manager......I love you too hunny bunch.Etc etc.

[drb]

It's funny...we used to perform the walks...no hassle, when the rep used to do the planning......

[Martin Walsh]

dingo wrote
If there is no agreement then you will still have to work longer saturdays but probably without the option of less saturdays as most operational managers do not like that part of the agreement.

There will be no imposed changes to saturday attendances until there is an agreement that is acceptable to the membership.
That is covered by the interim agreement is it not?
Unless of course we are to believe that Royal Mail will break an agreement brokered by ACAS?
In which case this whole agreement is worthless.
I have noticed the big stick is out today.

Fishtank if the agreement is rejected all bets are off. Do you really think that Royal Mail is going to put everything in their business plan on hold again for further talks. They did so from October till April. The number of WSMs has doubled in the UK and will increase by record figures this month and there is no way that they are going to continue to put everything on hold if the agreement is rejected.

That is not meant to influence or scare anyone but is a fact. If you are voting no that is your right but dont be conned into thinking that everything will simply be put on pause again.

[dvbuk55]

dingo wrote
If there is no agreement then you will still have to work longer saturdays but probably without the option of less saturdays as most operational managers do not like that part of the agreement.

There will be no imposed changes to saturday attendances until there is an agreement that is acceptable to the membership.
That is covered by the interim agreement is it not?
Unless of course we are to believe that Royal Mail will break an agreement brokered by ACAS?
In which case this whole agreement is worthless.
I have noticed the big stick is out today.

Fishtank if the agreement is rejected all bets are off. Do you really think that Royal Mail is going to put everything in their business plan on hold again for further talks. They did so from October till April. The number of WSMs has doubled in the UK and will increase by record figures this month and there is no way that they are going to continue to put everything on hold if the agreement is rejected.

That is not meant to influence or scare anyone but is a fact. If you are voting no that is your right but dont be conned into thinking that everything will simply be put on pause again.

If the vote doesn't go through dingo and RM start to roll out changes by EA shouldn't we expect the CWU to fight our corner - the members that is? This agreement needs to be looked at again and the rewards pro rata is a damned disgrace. Would the D2D not still be paid at the current rate of agreement, would the cap not still be 3 per week, would the delivery span not still be the agreed 3.5 hours or whatever individual offices have agreed to date?

[Martin Walsh]

Dvbuk I dont think it will be a no vote judging by what i know from Branch"s and members but hey I might be wrong.

If it is a no then the union would have to understand why members have voted no , they will get each branch"s breakdown to understand what Branch"s have voted by a majority against the agreement.

A counsultation with the members would then be understaken. Of course they would meet with Royal Mail and ACAS to understand whether Royal Mail were willing to move on any of the issues which have caused the members to reject the agreement. But if it is rejected then we all know it will probably be over door to door and longer saturdays and both of those issues have been discussed and argued over in the 4 months of talks.

Now the question is what will Royal Mail do ? I just dont think from the senior managers I meet that they will continue to just talk and put their business plan on hold.

[dvbuk55]

Dvbuk I dont think it will be a no vote judging by what i know from Branch"s and members but hey I might be wrong.

If it is a no then the union would have to understand why members have voted no , they will get each branch"s breakdown to understand what Branch"s have voted by a majority against the agreement.

A counsultation with the members would then be understaken. Of course they would meet with Royal Mail and ACAS to understand whether Royal Mail were willing to move on any of the issues which have caused the members to reject the agreement. But if it is rejected then we all know it will probably be over door to door and longer saturdays and both of those issues have been discussed and argued over in the 4 months of talks.

Now the question is what will Royal Mail do ? I just dont think from the senior managers I meet that they will continue to just talk and put their business plan on hold.

By D2D I presume you mean the rewards package not just for FT Members but more blatantly the pro rata payment to PT members. The increased workload IMHO is not an issue in itself nor the later finishes on Saturday if there is a genuine belief that duty end is 2/2.30 and not last letter down at 2/2.30, there is a difference.
Not least of all because the agreement states 3 & 4 you can be expected to work up to that time!

Now I don't know who thought that the pro rata payment for D2D for PT members was fair and equitable, the delivery supplement I can see to an extent, though I have explained the concerns of PT members working more than their contractual hours - there should have been a single standard payment for D2D - which may well still have been a loss of income and make no bones about it this is a loss of income for delivery staff, but at least they would both be getting the same for the same work. The CWU had control of this money and should have concerned themselves with ALL members - not winners and losers.

Now if they don't put their plans on hold will they be any different to the plans which confront us now, probably not, but they still have to persuade the workforce to go along with them and that is a crucial point.

[Big Daz]

DVBUK55

RML would alter the pro rata thing but only with the current pool of money,

top brass CWU have suggested this would be unpoular with FTers as they would get less supplement.

[rockytony67]

DVBUK55

RML would alter the pro rata thing but only with the current pool of money,

top brass CWU have suggested this would be unpoular with FTers as they would get less supplement.

That may well be correct Big Daz, but how can people who never even touch d2ds and have not lost early shift allowance, get the full supplement and yet someone who is going to deliver over 700 d2ds over a week on a PT contract, get say £14 quid and as someone who works in a London office with about 25% pt, who were all solid in the strikes,its a major kick in the teeth to them, I've done over twenty years in this job but this one issue is the biggest mistake that this union has ever made, all the other issues I could live with, but the reason I became a union rep many years ago(I'm not now) is to fight unfairness and without doubt this is the most unfair thing that this union has ever agreed two, and I would ask why if we are all expected to make sacrifices, the PBS money was not put in the pot and shared about, and I come from an office that gets a nice monthly bonus.

[dvbuk55]

Well it is apparently just ESA 1 & 2 - because it is a dwindling pool of money they say, but the same is true for driving allowance where fewer and fewer people will receive it and yet more and more people will be driving because of CDVs, also the DSA has exactly the same prognosis as ESA and yet that is apparently to be left alone. The PHG supplement has the same time limit as the other two. All that money should have been captured. Does anyone know why it wasn't?

Had all these allowances been incorporated into the pot it would have meant more money to be shared out equally.

[rockytony67]

Well it is apparently just ESA 1 & 2 - because it is a dwindling pool of money they say, but the same is true for driving allowance where fewer and fewer people will receive it and yet more and more people will be driving because of CDVs, also the DSA has exactly the same prognosis as ESA and yet that is apparently to be left alone. The PHG supplement has the same time limit as the other two. All that money should have been captured. Does anyone know why it wasn't?

Had all these allowances been incorporated into the pot it would have meant more money to be shared out equally.

The PBS supplement if I have read the agreement right is also a dwindling pool of money because it will not be paid to new recruits, come April, although I would be happy to be told that I'm wrong

[dvbuk55]

Well it is apparently just ESA 1 & 2 - because it is a dwindling pool of money they say, but the same is true for driving allowance where fewer and fewer people will receive it and yet more and more people will be driving because of CDVs, also the DSA has exactly the same prognosis as ESA and yet that is apparently to be left alone. The PHG supplement has the same time limit as the other two. All that money should have been captured. Does anyone know why it wasn't?

Had all these allowances been incorporated into the pot it would have meant more money to be shared out equally.

The PBS supplement if I have read the agreement right is also a dwindling pool of money because it will not be paid to new recruits, come April, although I would be happy to be told that I'm wrong

Odd that because a new recruit to deliveries will receive the delivery supplement O yes this has been thought out right enough AND it took only 4 months