London starts to make progress

[dvbuk55]

Well there is apparently a meeting on Monday in my area - so if the PEC is meeting on Monday and the result of a meeting here isn't known until late Monday how can they take into account if the result of our meeting is negative?

I know there are meetings going on between the reps and management, but they are only to make sure both parties are engaging at local level.These will have no impact on national negotiations.

Will it then not impact on the so called interim agreeement if no progress has been made or now that there has been movement in London has that gone by the wayside. So do we move on to the National Agreement now? Dingo says they are now shuffling the pack to stretch the negotiations, well there's a surprise.

[dvbuk55]

Dvbuk the national PEC can meet at any given time. I would have thought there will be a meeting on Tuesday or Wednesday as they need to review if Royal Mail have not moved their postion in the national talks then I would think that the PEC will make a decison.

All Divisional Reps have regular conference calls with the DGSP department to feed back what is occuring in their divisons.

The National Talks stalled badly this week. Intially it was a result of Royal Mail switching their negotatiors. They replaced Tony Fox with Murphy in Network , they replaced Cameron in Processing with Fox and they put Cameron in with Stockdale in Deliveries. The Union complained that by changing their leads at this stage would make the talks more protracted .

In addition the unions draft proposal to Royal Mail on deliveries was very detailed whereas Royal Mail"s was so short it was taking the mickey. In fact they had just one paragraph of 4 lines to remove the 3.5 hour spec.

So Monday is a big day for us all. Royal Mail!s plans for delivery , processing and network effects everyone in the UK and they tag on this phase world class mails which is basically another continious improvement process.

So lets be clear dont be hoodwinked that this is a London dispute , this is about whether you have a future. Royal Mail"s plans drawfed anything which you have seen before.

If the PEC can meet at any time , Tues, Weds etc - surely the window for recalling strike action has gone - unless of course there was never any intention to recall even after Londons plea. TBH there is no movment outside of London by all accounts and so lets move on to the National Agreement.

A little research shows that Royal Mails Delivery Plan closely follows the plan that TNT are currently running and so there are no surprises, what would be a surprise is if the union actively fights the plan and I do not mean you and your area but the CWU. I can see trouble ahead unless there is a negotiated agreeement which satisfies everyone. There is also that worryingly little snippet about the no strike clause - couched in the terms of "no interruption of service" - that would mean that there would be no need for negotiation because we wouldn't be able to do anything about EA in the future.

People harp on about monthly pay but really to most people that is a non-issue - once engaged it doesn't make any difference. What will be an issue is the amount of pay for the hours worked. We have already seen a pay cut over the last 3 years and as the overtime opportunities are becoming few and far between, once the part time structure is in place, earnings will fall even more.

It isn't Royal Mails plan that is the worry for our members it is if the CWU can negotiate a deal which benefits them and leaves us with the option to have a free vote without interference or recommendation. I well remember the last vote on P&M when Dave Ward was trying to sell the deal and I had to wonder who he was working for, RM or CWU.

[snoddy]

Dave Ward works for the CWU.
Not the membership but the CWU there is a subtle difference.

[Martin Walsh]

Dvbuk on what basis do you make the claim the interim agreement is not working around the UK. I know the feedback I get from talking to reps and conference calls and reports from the PEC who attend each divisonal committee meeting. throughout the UK.

This is a great site run by Postman and admistered by TBT etc and it gives people an opportunity to give their opinion on issues. But is it reprsentative of the 130 000 members in all 1500 units ? That is a matter of debate.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but sometimes people make their opinions based on rumour , heresay and with hidden agendas. Remember the CWU is a voluntary organisation , not a closed shop. You do have a choice .

Now Snoody as for your comments , you obviously dont know the man if you did you wouldt write that silly comment. Dave"s passion for the members is well known and he is a members first person. Yes Dave like everyone does not make the right judgement always but he makes it in the belief he is doing the right thing by the members and not CWU HQs. Remember whilst a lot of posters on here put their own personal opinion , Dave carries the responsibility of dealing with 130 000 members who have a range of views which differ drastically from wanting the union to call off strikes to stepping up the action.

Finally DVbuk we only have to give 7 days notice of strike action and the PEC will be able to call action anytime from 14th December if they choose.

[Stormproof]

Perhaps there should be another National Ballot with the same question as the last one, we'll see if things have changed then

[oggie]

If the PEC can meet at any time , Tues, Weds etc - surely the window for recalling strike action has gone - unless of course there was never any intention to recall even after Londons plea. TBH there is no movment outside of London by all accounts and so lets move on to the National Agreement.

I have to disagree with you, i work in a voc down on the south coast, our rep has been on full release dealing with the duties which went in with EA, They have now been signed off and a resign starts next week. i can only speak for the office i work in, unlike some who seem to know? (or don't want to know) what is happening elsewhere.

[dvbuk55]

Dvbuk on what basis do you make the claim the interim agreement is not working around the UK. I know the feedback I get from talking to reps and conference calls and reports from the PEC who attend each divisonal committee meeting. throughout the UK.

This is a great site run by Postman and admistered by TBT etc and it gives people an opportunity to give their opinion on issues. But is it reprsentative of the 130 000 members in all 1500 units ? That is a matter of debate.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but sometimes people make their opinions based on rumour , heresay and with hidden agendas. Remember the CWU is a voluntary organisation , not a closed shop. You do have a choice .

Now Snoody as for your comments , you obviously dont know the man if you did you wouldt write that silly comment. Dave"s passion for the members is well known and he is a members first person. Yes Dave like everyone does not make the right judgement always but he makes it in the belief he is doing the right thing by the members and not CWU HQs. Remember whilst a lot of posters on here put their own personal opinion , Dave carries the responsibility of dealing with 130 000 members who have a range of views which differ drastically from wanting the union to call off strikes to stepping up the action.

Finally DVbuk we only have to give 7 days notice of strike action and the PEC will be able to call action anytime from 14th December if they choose.

Well I would think they will not choose. Perhaps you know differently.

As for not working across the country I can tell you that nothing has happened in the North West since the strikes were called off. And we are not the only area where EA has not been reversed. Like a lot of posters on here you have your opinion and I have mine. I have seen the workings of the CWU for the last 20 years and in these last few years there has been a distinct change and not for the good.
London seems to have a disproportionate say in the workings of the union, you may disagree and thats your choice.

As for hidden agendas dingo I think you would know more about that than I would.

[fishtank]

Hootymacboob wrote
"there are a few posters who are spreading and misleading forum users that this is the case. IMHO they are either RM managers masquerading as union minded people or they have been brain washed at the WTL sessions"

Dingo wrote
"Everyone is entitled to their opinion but sometimes people make their opinions based on rumour , heresay and with hidden agendas."

It looks like we have a full blown conspiracy theory on this forum.
Lighten up boys and stop taking yourselves so seriously.
You insult the members of this forum and the membership in general if you think their opinions can be swayed so easily on such an important matter.
If what you are after is a membership that accepts everything and questions nothing then maybe a discussion forum is not the place for your posts.

[wranglered]

Spot on fishtank....my take is all this progress is CWU HQ spin to try and justify inactivity.... the worrying thing is I see this "reengagement" and "progress" S***T filtering down through to Branch level.....I think it is so sad it has come to this...noone from the corridors of power on this site ever answer the real question....

what has the CWU done in all of this to improve terms and conditions?

nothing...but there again, that is just my opinion and I am definitely not a manager....

[Pinky 1]

Well i'm glad things are moving forward in London
We've stopped the "summer" lapsing for the xmas pressure period, and that's it. Even that's coming back in January
We're still struggling with geo-routed deliveries, and still doing "round and a 1/3rds".
There's packets and parcels piling up undelivered and 4 deliveries failed on Saturday.
Monday see's the start of our Xmas pressure, and we're sending 3 men to the MC because they're "excess to requirements"
Couldn't make it up, could you ......

[Ahebban]

I don't think any CWU member has any doubt as to the importance placed on these negotiations for the future of RM itself, let alone maintaining and making improvement on existing pay, terms and conditions of CWU members.

If the PEC are due to meet Tues/Wed to view, and make a decision on what progress has or has not been made, can the membership expect to see a detailed explanation of any PEC decision this time around?

Whilst I appreciate there has been need to 'fine tune' an agreement specific to London, I feel sure that it will be used as a model for other areas/offices where change has been imposed should the need be required.

It was inevitable that London became the focus for the dispute but it should be remembered that offices in Scotland and elsewhere were balloting for and taking industrial action long before HQ had to face up to the inevitability of the dispute becoming national.

With the benefit of hindsight CWU HQ should have reacted much quicker once it became clear that RM were not going to abide to the 2007-2009 Agreement, let alone negotiate a new Agreement!

[dvbuk55]

I would like to make my case clear:

I am not a manager and never have been at Royal Mail
I am an OPG
I do not have a hidden agenda
I speak as I find
I do not accept statements at face value
I question everything in particular that affects me
I have never been a Rep
I have no wish to run for Union office either locally, Divisionally or Nationally
I want to be treated fairly
I want my colleagues to be treated fairly
I want the CWU to accept that the decisions taken have not always been correct
I do not feel that I have to defend the union
I do feel THEY should be defending me
I do not like being lied to

[donut]

I am not a manager and never have been at Royal Mail

Have you been a manager elsewhere ?

[rockytony67]

I would like to make my case clear:

I am not a manager and never have been at Royal Mail
I am an OPG
I do not have a hidden agenda
I speak as I find
I do not accept statements at face value
I question everything in particular that affects me
I have never been a Rep
I have no wish to run for Union office either locally, Divisionally or Nationally
I want to be treated fairly
I want my colleagues to be treated fairly
I want the CWU to accept that the decisions taken have not always been correct
I do not feel that I have to defend the union
I do feel THEY should be defending me
I do not like being lied to

Who has lied to you

[brothermagrew]

I'm taking fishtank's advice and lightening up, and as lying isn't in my vocabulary auld dvbuk55 is a basketball playing legend