London interim agreement joint statement doc

[Martin Walsh]

Dvbuk the policy came about as a result of Royal Mail walking away from phase 4 and a new agreement, the problems with the mail centre closeures and the fact that 50 /50 was ending and that nothing was in place for staff to share in savings going forward.

[DGP1]

Now DGP have you had a revison imposed if so have you had a review under 2.3 and have you raised it with you area and divisonal reps who then feed back to CWU HQs. Facts are there 9 divisons within the CWU have are South West & South Wales , South Central , South East , London , Anglia, Midlands , North West & North Wales , North East and Scotland & Northern Ireland. All of those divisons apart from London have some agreements thats a fact.

Well, I'm in daily contact with my rep. and and no time have they indicated that there is any agreement, my rep. has been given no release time to correct any of the problems in my office (although that said, one manager did say that some of the duties did need reviewed ) plus we've been told that we can't any of the 300 hours put back into the office that we need to correct all the problems. No offence but it does seem that as soon as London started to get their way the rest of us have been left to hang in the wind. You don't seem to realise the anger that is brewing because we fell totally betrayed by the union leadership and TBH it wouldn't be that difficult for me to convince the majority of people in my office to just give up on the union (even the rep and deputy rep feel that way), of course maybe some leadership from the union wouldn't go amiss but then that would seem to involve actually doing something (other than buddying up to management in the hope that they don't get put back to their jobs).

[fishtank]

Dingo,you are failing to see the big picture.
It does not matter if it is a joint statement or an enabler or an agreement.
It does not matter how justified a document it is.
It only matters how it will be seen by the members around the whole country.
It will be SEEN as a deal for London.
And that is all that really matters.

[nomates]

DVbuk the no savings policy was made in December 2008 and annouced to all Branch "s at a national briefing in January 2009 at friends house.

Further infomation was given to Divisonal Reps and an Ltb was issued.

So does that mean that any changes agreed or imposed prior to the call for NO SAVINGS and no cooperation must still stand? Because we have had changes long before December 2008, we had PDAs, and park and loop and revisions before December 2008 - you see these things may well have triggered the call for a no saviings policy in some areas but in others we were following the THEN party line of Pay and Modernisation a la 2007. Perhaps you can now see that there is a certain chagrin in people like me who have seen the conditions deteriorate because they were started before this policy was created and once on that road you cannot turn back.

This is the heart of the matter. We had to sit and take revisions, savings and all this flexibility crap in 2008, while London was entirely unaffected by them. The 2007 P & M agreement said that changes were to be introduced over 2 years - London was last. This whole no agreements business wasn't mentioned until London started to take some pain. Where was London when we were being shafted? We go out on strike and it's seen as us supporting London, not us being pissed off with all the crap we've been putting up with for the best part of TWO years. As soon as the PEC see that RM will do a deal on London and let THEM role back THEIR EA, it's sod everyone else. 4 days a week, with a regular 5th day on overtime! They are taking the piss, BIG TIME!

This whole dispute is being seen by the PEC and RM as being about London. Don't give me crap about how London has lost so much money to strike action - look how strong and macho they are! The rest of us are spineless bastards who deserve being shafted because we're weak..... Or so they would have us believe. How many PEC members have London affiliatrions or roots? That tells you all you need to know about their attitude to the rest of the country. I'm livid and disgusted, and I bet I'm not the only one!

[BELIAL]

AH the folly of local agreements. What bright spark thought that was the way forward. Roosting time

[Kpostbun]

Dont forget alot of offices like ours in southampton voted to strike before our 20hour contracts came in but just like 2007 we were denied this and told it was too near a national ballot so we have loads more part-timers now. It wasnr like we didnt want to make our voices heard alot sooner

[Big Daz]

Overreaction to this London document IMHO, it's simply re iterating the interim agreement.

The interim agreement allows for ACS to assist at local level as well as national, if mbrs outside of London want that then speak up directly to HQ/ACAS if need be.

All London have got in the interim agreement with the wording slightly more detailed.

London do not negotiate for the rest of the country that is down to your local area divisonal reps for non london areas. No need to have a pop at London. What they have is in the interim agreement.


1.5 To assist the parties in reaching a full and final agreement they will seek
the assistance of ACASand the Tuc in nominating an appropriate,
agreed "independent person to work together with them:
• to oversee and monitor progress made during the local and
national negotiations
• to assist, at the request of either party, in resolving any difficulties

So if this was all in the interim agreement, why keep shrieking that we needed to go back on strike to get a deal? And if there is no difference between London and the rest of us - why specifically create a document solely for London and not for the whole of the membership? And why haven't we seen a full and frank statement from the CWU? Has somebody got the hand up the jacket working the mouth?

dvbuk 55

Remember the national stuff can trigger another strike, not just local level difficulties.


London have had exacly what the interim agreement entitles them to and thats help, its there in black and white section 1.5. That help manifested itself through talks of which the outcome was formally recorded on paper.

All i can see in the london doc is a comittment from London RML that they are committted to the interim agreemnet and will follow it.

[Big Daz]

So what is in the London doc that is so bloddy fantastic they you good people are getting so upset about?

I can't see anything in it that says all your changes will be reversed, I can't see that 4 day weeks will definetley come back.

Workload allingment is the key word for less than 5 day weeks its in the intermin agrement and the London doc.

The London document is all about talks and how they get from where they are now to getting local agreements on change which is what the interim agreement section 2.3 says should be happening.


2.3 In all offices where change has been implemented in 2009 the local
parties will undertake a review. In offices where change has been
implemented without agreement the local parties will engage in genuine
negotiations to reach local agreement. In reviewing the current position
the mutual objective will be to identify improvements in line with the
full range of principles of the Pay and Modernisation Agreement 2007.
Specifically the local parties must address/resolve the following range of
issues:
• Overall job numbers and resourcing mix based on a fair and
transparent level of workload, working safely and utilising all paid
for hours
• Maintenance of reasonable earnings opportunities
• Improved efficiency
• Family friendly and innovative duty patterns. (Agreements may
include less than 5 day attendances where consistent with
effective workload alignment)
• Ensure employees feel motivated and valued
• The need for duty redesigns/ job allocation in line with existing
national agreements ie Way Forward and MTSF
• Need to meet service specification
Divisional reps and regional teams will be available to help this process.

[Martin Walsh]

Some people need to wake up , every london office had a major revison which lost 10 % of hours in 2008 the highest in the country in 2008. So in 2008 Pay and Mod effected every single member, we lost a mail centre in London during that time making it the 6 mail centre in London to close in 15 years.

On top of that we lost work to the New International site. We have seen clousres of delivery offices mergers of DOs , we have seen closures of collection hubs and all the phases of pay and Mod being used.

The difference between 2008 and 2009 is this that all of the above was agreed as it was in your offices.

In 2009 , 50 50 bonus was ceasing as Royal Mail choose the path of not paying for change in the future. Plus we were in the middle of a number of mail centre closures , and on top of all this Royal Mail had walked away from agreeing phase 4 and were moving ahead with change without agreement.

The National Union took a policy of no savings. Yet some Branchs decided to break it. It is excuse to say that they were forced to agree savings or otherwise it would have been worse. We could have all done that, That was the easy option. If we had all take the easy option then they would not have been any the local disputes.

London , parts of Scotland , Plymouth , Bristol , Network and many others decided that we would make a stand for the National Union and refused to agree savings as it was more important to achieve a long lasting National Agreement which would benefit the whole of the Union regardless of whether they agreed a revison or not.

As a result of the local ballots national talks got underway. Plus there would never have been a National Ballot had the local disputes not have taken place.

So fishtank some narrow minded people will see wrongly that there is a diferent deal for London but they choose to forget that members in London took 20 days strike action in pursance of a national agreement for everyone. Others who still have problems can also have something similar.

Plus I guess some of these same people would have argued in 2003 that there should not have been an increse in London Weighting despite everyother union campainging for that at the time.

At that time the National Union achieved a No Vote for strike action with London being the only division in the country in that ballot of gettng a Yes Vote.

At the same time the London members voted Yes for strike action over London Weighting.

The No Vote meant that Royal Mail wanted to impose SDD and Mail Centre change without a lot of benefits.

London took 2 days official strike action which led to the biggest unofficial strike since the miners which lasted 2 weeks and spread to Essex, Postmouth , Warrington , Covertry and many other parts.

As a result of this unoffical dispute the union got back into talks and got the national agreement for everyone in the UK on SDD and Major change which agreed the 5 day week , £26.28 pay rise biggest we have ever recieved , MTSF2 and the biggest London Weighting rise ever.

Now I suppose people forget that eposide and just want to enter into the blame game. Blaming London , blaming the PEC , Blaming the Officers . Well is it not time that you started to look at yourself and what you can do in your locallity if it is as bad as you say well what are you doing about it other than moan on here. Come on and explain. More than happy to help you move your local issues on and point you in the right direction,

[snoddy]

Overreaction to this London document IMHO, it's simply re iterating the interim agreement.

The interim agreement allows for ACS to assist at local level as well as national, if mbrs outside of London want that then speak up directly to HQ/ACAS if need be.

All London have got in the interim agreement with the wording slightly more detailed.

London do not negotiate for the rest of the country that is down to your local area divisonal reps for non london areas. No need to have a pop at London. What they have is in the interim agreement.


1.5 To assist the parties in reaching a full and final agreement they will seek
the assistance of ACASand the Tuc in nominating an appropriate,
agreed "independent person to work together with them:
• to oversee and monitor progress made during the local and
national negotiations
• to assist, at the request of either party, in resolving any difficulties
that arise

So if this was all in the interim agreement, why keep shrieking that we needed to go back on strike to get a deal? And if there is no difference between London and the rest of us - why specifically create a document solely for London and not for the whole of the membership? And why haven't we seen a full and frank statement from the CWU? Has soomebody got the hand up the jacket working the mouth?

Regional pay????
National paypot 100% = London 80% everyone else 20%

[Ernie Shoe]

AH the folly of local agreements. What bright spark thought that was the way forward. Roosting time

Local agreements have finished this job for some people.

If you pay your subs and your fortunate to have strong area reps etc you're ok.
If not you get shat on.

With apparent weak leadership I don't feel we have a national union anymore.

[Martin Walsh]

Local agreement have always been in the union. In fact prior to 1992 we had a CWU branch for almost every office and we always had local agreements. How does that mean now that the national union is finished.

Prior to 1992 there were only two national ballots , since 1992 there have been 3 national strikes and 1 national industrial action ballot which produced a no vote.

Now Snoddy there is no regional pay , but there are a number of different allowances, there is London weighting ,Scottish Distant Island allowance , there is RRIS which is a recuirtment and rentention payment which a number of offices recieve up to £20 , we have differnt time bonus in some mail centres and we have also differnt bonus payments as a result of the the finishing of various bonus like IWM , RULC , and Delivery remuneration which became PBS Bonus. Part of the finshing of the bonus payments was to top up all the previous chirstmas bonus payments which a substainial amount had only £42.

[OnAFlyer]

As a result of this unoffical dispute the union got back into talks and got the national agreement for everyone in the UK on SDD and Major change which agreed the 5 day week , £26.28 pay rise biggest we have ever recieved , MTSF2 and the biggest London Weighting rise ever.

Now I suppose people forget that eposide and just want to enter into the blame game. Blaming London , blaming the PEC , Blaming the Officers . Well is it not time that you started to look at yourself and what you can do in your locallity if it is as bad as you say well what are you doing about it other than moan on here. Come on and explain. More than happy to help you move your local issues on and point you in the right direction,

You mean the £26 a week pay rise, whilst at the same time losing Saturday premium, decent OT rates and night allowance when doing nights on OT?

I used to earn more for a working a Friday night 10 years ago than I do now.

So thanks for that fantastic agreement, that along with P&M 2007 was the worst thing that ever happened to us.

[borders]

i have to say i mostly agree with Dingo's sentiments. London is trying to get a benchmark from which all other areas can follow if they have the will. the Union is only as strong as its members and reps, and it is just as important that all these people fight together to locally get the best deal that they can achieve using the national guidelines. however in many areas the will is not there. the solidarity and togetherness is absent and the Management will take advantage. for example, i know a colleague that works in a small DO in the rural SW and the vast majority in his office worked over the strikes and come in early and work their meal reliefs etc most days. it is understandable , they are frightened to lose their jobs because there is no other work about and the management exploit this situation. London CWU is politically active and it seems to have awakened its members of its class consciousness. they have stood together along with some parts of Scotland and other other areas and fair play to them.

[bogstandard]

You mean the £26 a week pay rise, whilst at the same time losing Saturday premium, decent OT rates and night allowance when doing nights on OT?

I used to earn more for a working a Friday night 10 years ago than I do now.

So thanks for that fantastic agreement, that along with P&M 2007 was the worst thing that ever happened to us.

to be fair Saturday premium was slid under our noses whilst Mr. keggie was at the helm. As i recall voting slips were sent out inside our "voice" magazine